how did donald rumsfeld in the becoming a republican? guest: he came from a conservative district on the north shore in chicago. he could not have gotten elected if you were not conservative. but he was not a neo - conservative. sometimes people confuse him as being part of that community. he was always quite mainline conservative. some people might be surprised to learn that when he was younger in congress he had the image as a moderate republican, a reformer. he led a group that came to be known as rumsfeld's raiders and challenged some of the old-guard republicans in leadership. host: you wrote that his transformation process did not go as some conservative critics wanted. in august 2001 bill kristol called for donald rumsfeld and another resignation. guest: that is red. there was a time a few months into his tenure when he was widely speculated likely to be the first cabinet casualty of the bush administration because he had come into office charged with transforming the military, but was taking his time, organizing study groups. he

donald rumsfeld did believe that report. of all the senior officials if he should have known better or at least question that intelligence more aggressively than he did. he tried to warn against believing too much in the conventional wisdom, not challenging enough assumptions and intelligence reports. he was very fond of disturbing to people the preface of a book on pearl harbor which warns against falling into this kind of conventional thinking and not challenging conventional wisdom sufficiently, and yet here was a case where rumsfeld himself did not seem to question is enough. host: moments ago we showed the picture it from your books of his meeting saddam hussein. guest: the meeting occurred in december 1983 when he says served as a presidential envoy richard when he served as the convoy president reagan to the middle east. he was instructed by the reagan administration to facilitate the resumption of ties with iraq that had been ruptured during the iraq/iran war. both were interested then had resuming those ties. it wou

how did donald rumsfeld viewed the role of government official of public service? >> guest: he was a very interesting public service from a very young age, he was inspired in college senior year

>> host: fine, thanks. >> caller: i was listening to help donald rumsfeld ar originally had some presidential aspirations. are we looking forward to seeing rumsfeld run at presidents the next four years and as well as far as some of his responsibilities does he ever -- has ever admitted to responsibility or that we should have sent more troops in on the ground when we first invaded iraq or is it something that was kind of crossover? >> guest: as for the future presidential ambitions, i think those are behind rumsfeld. he has no intention that he shared with me of coming back into the government let alone running for president. he is spending much of his time working on his own memoir due out late next year. no, he has not expressed any regrets or second thoughts about the troop level initio. we will probably hear more from him about that in his book. i deal with it at length in my book. he was not the only one of arguing for the holding the line on troops and bring them down in iraq. it was a position favored by his top generals and iraq at the time and they all shared the view that it would

could your guest comment on the role of donald rumsfeld and watergate. this is from the post naderater. >> guest: rumsfeld although he served senior positions in the nixon administration was able to east cape much of the people watergate. he was also overseas as ambassador to nato at the time the watergate scandal broke he, however, was quite involved with mix and's political operations in the doing, as i write in the book, various political favors and activities, and he was very close to mitchell of nixon's top political operatives who work in watergate. >> host: you mentioned in the book about all of rumsfeld being influenced by adamle stevenson, a speech by the democratic senator adlai stevenson in the 50's. how did donald rumsfeld wind up being a republican? >> guest: well, he came from a very conservative district. the north shore of chicago, and he couldn't have gotten elected if he were a conservative. but he wasn't a neoconservative. sometimes people confuse him as being a part of that community. he was always quite mainline conservative and what

donald rumsfeld remained perplexing to this day said mr. scowcroft. i don't know what rumsfeld really thinks, he said and 2007. i've had a chance to watch his mind operate. for anybody else with whom i've had that kind of contact i've got a picture of who they are, what makes them work and so on. i have no idea what makes him work, what makes him the way he is. i want to ask you after doing this book on donald rumsfeld, do you have an idea what makes him tick? >> guest: i have somewhat of a better idea but i cannot say that i thoroughly understand him. you know, he is very complicated and that is what has continued to fascinate me about him. he's like jekyll and hyde kind of character. he's got this rauf and tough hard charging site to him that got him into trouble as the defense secretary also had made an effective years earlier in the business and government and on the other hand he can be very affable, genial personable, sort of has a kind of old world courtesy about him. you never quite knew which rumsfeld would show up at least sometimes i didn't

caller: i was listening to how they said that donald rumsfeld originally had presidential aspirations. are we looking forward to see rooms fille -- rumsfeld run for president in the next four years? has the everest region has ever admitted responsibility or that we should have sent more troops on the ground when we invaded iran? is this something that has been glossed over? >> when we invaded in rock iniraq? guest: he has never shared an intention with me about coming back into government. he is spending time working on his own memoir due out next year. he has not expressed any regrets or second thoughts about the troop level issue. we will probably hear more from him about that. i deal with that at length in my book. he was not the only one. -- i do with that issue in mine. he was not the only one for limiting the number of trips. that was also the favor of his top generals in iraq at the time. they all shared the view that it would be better to turn over responsibility for security as quickly as possible to the iraqis and bring down u.s. forces as quickly as possible. host: this is

donald rumsfeld remained perplexed and to this day said mr. scowcroft i don't know what rumsfeld really things. he said i had a chance to watch his mind operate. for anybody else with whom i have had that kind of contact, i have got the picture who they are, what makes them work and so on. i have no idea what makes them work, what makes him the way he is. at want to ask you, after doing this book on donald rumsfeld, to have an idea of what makes him tick? >> guest: i have somewhat of a better idea but i can't say i thoroughly understand him. he is very complicated and that is what has continued to fascinate me about him. he is like a jekyll and hyde kind of character. he has got this very rough, tough hard-charging side to him that got him into trouble as defense secretary, also had made him effective years earlier in business and government. on the other hand he can be a very affable, genial, and old world courtesy about him. you never quite knew which rumsfeld would show up sometimes. at least i never did in my dealings with him. there were t

how did donald rumsfeld viewed the role of government official of public service? >> guest: he was a very interesting public service from a very young age, he was inspired in college senior year when adamle stevenson came to talk to his courage reading class at princeton urging of the students to put their work in public service and not long after that rumsfeld ran for congress and became the youngest republican member of congress in the 1960's and believed very march in a public service. he served not only in congress but in nixon and ford administrations and then came back of course and the bush administration but even in between when he was a corporate executive he stayed involved in government serving as a presidential envoy and a couple of government commissions. >> host: the book is 800 pages and extensive biography certainly some presidents don't get this sort of treatment. you talked about his running for congress. did he ever have presidential aspirations? >> he did. some of his old high school classmates remembered rumsfeld expressing interest way back th

host: how did donald rumsfeld view the role of public service?guest: he was very interested in public service from a very young age, inspired in college when it advice stevenson came to talk to his graduate in class. that was at princeton. stevenson urged all the students to use their educations to put them to work in public service. not long afterward donald rumsfeld ran for congress and became the youngest republican member in 1960 and believed in public service. he served not only in congress, but also in the nixon and ford administrations and returned

how did donald rumsfeld view the role of a government official, a public service? >> guest: he was very interested in public service from a very young age. inspired in college, actually, senior year, whenned a lie stevenson came to talk to his graduating class princeton, urging the students to use their educations and put them to work in public service and not long after that, rumsfeld rang -- ran for congress, and believed very much in public service. he served not only in congress but in the nixon and ford administrations, and then came back, of course in the bush administration, but even in between, when he was a corporate executive, he stayed involved in government, serving as a presidential envoy on a couple of government commissions. >> host: the book is, 800 pages, an extensive biography, certainly some presidents don't get this sort of treatment you talk about his running for congress. did he ever have presidential aspirations? >> guest: he did. at some of his old high school classmates remember rumel

i sat and watched, maybe i shouldn't be saying this, i watch donald rumsfeld interview -- working for him. when i saw these guys on his calendar. the job they went into. the leadership for the most part is in that moment. >> that is too much money. >> the guy we respect enormously, when it comes to war. the money ruins the people, and the defense ruins your officer corps, it ruins their fighting ability. that is reaping but whirlwind in iraq and afghanistan. >> you mentioned the willingness of people to come forward, good accountability mechanism, the military service, there was a debate going on about legislation for national security. how important is that, establishing some real credibility, the accountability process. >> danielle can speak to this better than i can. >> it would be great to have legislate. we had some bills down their merry path. there is a sense in the pentagon that someone is looking over their shoulder. i don't care if they get a sense that someone is looking over their shoulder or somebody in congress is looking over their shoulder. they feel free to do what th

the fact we were lied into iraq by dick cheney and donald rumsfeld -- there was no justification at all -- the media, the media is an enabler for these war criminals to continue with this fraud. the oil companies have been the beneficiaries of this industrial and into control of our government. the media does not pay attention to what the lower third of our country is going through because of this economic downturn. this was all created by congress in collusion with large corporations and financial, and these mega financial -- the wall street' monstrosities. host: thank you for your comment from silver spring, maryland. the ap confirms the death of four u.s. soldiers in combat- related injuries. this is on the eve of the withdrawal of troops. it is our subject this first half-hour. we will check in in a couple of minutes jane arraf wit who was with -- we will check in with jane arraf from the christian science monitor. caller: i think we should be out of iraq and should never have been there. but obama is missing around over there just like bush did and he will begin world war iii. host

bradley graham's new book "by his own rules: the ambitions, successes and ultlimate failures of donald rumsfeld" will go on sale today. thanks. guest: thank you for having me. host: that pretty much does it for this program. tomorrow we will speak with senator john mccain. we will speak with tom ridge on thursday. we will take you live now to the national press club concerning iran. it is the morning news event. the speaker is an advocate for the campaign for civil disobedience against the regime in iran and will call for a secular parliamentarians and thademocracy there. . . [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009]. . . dÑ@ÑdÑdÑúÑ@Ñ@ÑdÑ@Ñ@Ñ@ÑdÑdÑúÑdÑ@Ñ ññññlÑ ññññññññ ññññññññññññññ >> waiting here at the national press club for remarks from iran's former crown prince, reza pahlavi. coming up in a couple of hours, president barack obama will be making a formal announcement, welcoming the weekend agreement by the pharmaceutical industry to help close a gap in prescription drug coverage under medica

and in a couple of hours, radley graham discusses his new book, the failures of donald rumsfeld. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: and is monday, june 22, 2009. president obama today signs the tobacco bill. we will begin by asking you about jobs and the economic recovery. where are the jobs in the country? specifically focusing on the area where you are calling from. and we will also take your comments by twitter. cspanwj is our handle. we would get your comments and phone calls in just a moment. here are a couple of breaking international stories. ira andn's revolutionary guard is threatening to crush any further opposition protests -- this after a weekend protest. another from the associated press, this one on the north korea. here is another from iran, rat her -- and they admit a possible discrepancy in the 3 million votes. north korea continues to take an aggressive stance over its nuclear program and international sanctions. the capital reminded the u.s. today that it has nuclear weapons and when it will strike back if attacked. we will spend the first hour talking about

quote this bipartisan report of the senate armed services committee, quote, secretary defense donald rumsfeld authorization of aggressive interrogation techniques for use of guantanamo bay was a direct cause of detainee abuse, and of quote. one other example. susan crawford, the top bush administration official dealing with military commissions at guantanamo. she was general counsel of army during the reagan administration and pentagon inspector general when richard cheney of was the defense secretary. she is a lifelong republican. susan crawford reached the same conclusion, reached the conclusion mohammed al-kahtani, the so-called 20 hijacker couldn't be prosecuted for his role in the 9/11 attacks because he was tortured at guantanamo bay. here is what susan crawford said. madam president, can i ask for order in the chamber? >> the senate will be in order. >> here is what susan crawford said. quote, we tortured al-kahtani. if we tolerate this and allow wait how can we object when hours servicemen and women or others in the foreign service are captured and subjected to the same techniques? ho

later, bradley gramm will cover the pentagon for many years and wrote an extensive book on donald rumsfeld called "by his own rules." coming right back with more "washington journal [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009] >> the fcc could -- should be a model for transparency, openness, and fairness. >> tonight on "the communicators." a discussion on president obama's choice to lead the federal communications commission with andrew feinberg and fawn johnson. what the fcc would look like under a new chairman, tonight at 8:00 eastern on "the communicators" on c-span2. >> there is still time to get your copy of c-span's 2009 congressional directorate. with information on house and senate members, the cabinet, supreme court justices, and the nation's governors, plus district maps and how to contact committees and caucuses. it is $16.95. c-span.org online. /products or call 1-877-on-c- span. >> how c-span funded? >> donations. >> from the federal government. >> grants and stuff like that. >> maybe from sponsors? >> they mi

mccain, the ranking republican of the committee found -- and i quote -- "secretary of defense donald rumsfeld's authorization of aggressive interrogation techniques at guantanamo bay was a direct cause of detainee abuse there. end of quote. they also concluded there was a connection between abu ghraib and guantanamo in saying the abuse of detainees at abu ghraib was not the result of a few soldiers acting on their own. acts such as stripping detainees of their clothes and using military working dogs to intimidate them appeared in iraq only after they had been approved for use in afghanistan and at gitmo. susan crawford, a top bush administration official reached the same basic conclusion. let me conclude by saying this: president bush called for the closure of guantanamo. there were little or no -- few if no complaints from the republican side. now that president obama has made that same call, we hear this chorus of opposition. i think president obama has accepted a challenge. the challenge to make certain that these detainees are treated in a responsible way, that those who should stand trial

bradley graham discusses his new book about donald rums felt -- rumsfeld. >> people do not want to think of roosevelt's conservation as a policy as much of a passion. he put together almost 240 million acres of wild america. as people are talking about environmentalism and green movements, roosevelt is becoming the key figure to understand. he was the only politician of his day who absorbed darwin and understood biology, understood birds migratory patterns, understood mating habits of elk and antelope, and actually did something. >> sunday on "q&a," the first of two hours with douglas brinkley on "wilderness warrior," tonight at 8:00 on c-span, or listen on satellite radio, or download the c-span podcast.