i am pleased to have donald rumsfeld back at ts table. welcome. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: what do you want usto know about donald rumsfeld that we don't know? >> well, i don't really think of it as knowing about donald rumsfeld. it's more about the lt third of our country's hisry. the depression, world war ii that my time in congress during the vietnam war and the civil rights era and it's more an interest on my part in having people understand public service the importance of their helping to guide and direct the country, the way decisions are made, the reality that they're often made with incomplete information, inadequate information, sometimes even inaccurate information. and a sense of the things that work well and things that don't work quite so well. and i hope they come away a sense of gaining an interest in the history of our times but also in the process of governing. >> rose: i want you to see a tape. this is an interview you did with me 2005. roll tape. >> t people involved, the soldiers andailors and marines and airmen,

bush asked gates to replace controversial donald rumsfeld at the pentagon. said from the beginning one of his top responsibilities would be correcting the situation in iraq. >> we are not winning the war in iraq; is that correct? >> that is my view, yes, sir. >> reporter: he won praise for taking on the pentagon bureaucracy, and fighting for better care for u.s. service members and cutting expensive weapon systems. he jaw soefr surge in troops if iraq and afghanistan. he made no secret of the desire to return to private life. he told abc's diane saw her he feels the human cost of war and has become cautious as a result. >> maybe it's time for me to leave. >> it's begun to weigh on me in a way i'm not as useful as i used to be. >> tomorrow, leon panetta will take over as defense secretary. karen travers, abc news, washington. >>> texas governor rick perry is visiting california and planning to meet with supporters in sacramento. he is expected to speak with dozens of republicans who want him to run for president. they include business leaders and members of t

we had donald rumsfeld on our show. believe i lost more sleep over that interview than he probably did over the entire iraq war. [laughter] during the interview, though, it's very early on, and he says, i say to him, so the administration sells us this idea of weapons of mass destruction. "if i may, not sold, presented." it was early on. and i just went past it. and that night around 2:00 a.m. where i do my best work -- [laughter] i was thinking, that was the intercessory view, in the space between our definitions of what they did, sold and presented, and how do you accomplish that? how do you find those spaces and can you and how do you let it go? >> well, most of my guests are not on the show to make news. they're on the explain the news, to help understand the news. so there's in game plan there. they're not trying to find that edge that will create a headline in tomorrow morning's paper. they're really trying to help us put into perspective what we have seen and experienced. you know, the worst hour that i ever put

bush asked gates to replace controversial donald rumsfeld at the pentagon. gates said from the beginning one of his top responsibilities would be correcting the situation in iraq. >> we are not winning the war in iraq; is that correct? >> that is my view, yes, sir. >> reporter: he won praise for taking on the pentagon bureaucracy, and fighting for better care for u.s. service members and cutting expensive weapon systems. he jaw soefr surge in troops if iraq and afghanistan. he made no secret of the desire to return to private life. he told abc's diane saw her he feels the human cost of war and has become cautious as a result. >> maybe it's time for me to leave. >> it's begun to weigh on me in a way i'm not as useful as i used to be. >> tomorrow, leon panetta will take over as defense secretary. karen travers, abc news washington. >>> texas governor rick perry is visiting california and planning to meet with supporters in sacramento. he is expected to speak with dozens of republicans who want him to run for president. they include business leaders and members

the american criminal justice system for their crimes now only that these men like karl rove donald rumsfeld dick cheney john yoo jay bybee even george w. bush himself are thumbing their noses at american law period on television touting their crimes going on book tours and in the case of attorney john you know teaching law and jay bybee rewarded by bush with a lifetime seat on the ninth circuit court one step below the supreme court not only that there are thousands of banks toure's on wall street who stole trillions of dollars from us and ruined the lives of billions of people around the world with their theft from global financial markets damage done as a result of in many cases premeditated fraud if they still sit in their corner offices on wall street still making their millions of bonuses and have yet to even catch a whiff of the rule of law in america. elsewhere around america you have big energy c.e.o.'s who have the glow of countless men on their hands as a result of exploding oil rigs and collapsing coal mines as well as thousands of cancers and billions of dollars in environmental

happened instead and instead of a one time war as bush had intended he and his handlers like donald rumsfeld dick cheney opted for a perpetual war a war on terror it would last as long as his presidency was. so afghanistan half of iraq happened and countless other covert military actions in places like yemen happen with the war on terror the george w. bush dreamed up the as they so america was for the first time. involved in a war without any clear ending. a recipe for perpetual war or well in perpetual war. listen to how bush justified is a war. we can't really comment on that. he might as well have ripped his words straight from the text of orwell's one thousand nine hundred four and big brother told everyone that war is peace but last week he went on steroids to really commit america to a war ravaged dystopia last week congress took a step toward a shrine in perpetual war into law with the defense authorization act it reads congress affirms that the united states is engaged in an armed conflict with al qaida the taliban and associated forces and that those entities continue to pose a thre

the is going to take you back to two thousand and one thousand to two thousand three hundred donald rumsfeld secretary but it's you saw it back then was this. kind of god to essentially small luck the roles of the state department and the successfully that you know anybody waits to steer some of the roles of the word exclusive department defense could be smaller than the very same thing that is a very negative thing. pretty interesting i mean even though he does say you know his pay has passed job well not a fact as i think is a very important point you make about those lines being blurred a lot of people already talking about this overly close relationship between the pentagon and the cia let's look now a little bit at the betrayers timeline looking back you know the first time we really started to hear about him was in the early days of iraq back in two thousand and three when his soldiers found and killed saddam hussein's son uday and qusay since then general petraeus has risen. to the limelight and i think the argument could be made that he is the most talked about man military man at le

he is going to take that check to two thousand and one thousand and two thousand three hundred donald rumsfeld secretary to parents and what you saw back then was the effort by the pentagon to essentially small what the roles of the state department and he successfully did that in many many ways the fear is that some of the roles that the agencies have which were exclusive of the department of defense could be smaller in the very same fashion that is a very negative thing a us that speaking before about this blurring of lines between the cia and pentagon i want to go back to that on not just because a lot of people are concerned about it but i want to get your take having been on the inside there in the cia i know there's always sort of been that you know tough relationship between the three a and the f.b.i. right do you think that this could mean that with these boring life having someone literally cross over from the other side come to head up this agency you said it could be concerning what should people be concerned about well we have seen this before with hayden and others so i mean this

know they're you know the people who are involved in government you know look at dick cheney and donald rumsfeld i mean they're like the perfect examples of people who work for private corporations and then went on to be in the government and now have benefited immensely you know in huge gains in wealth from their time in office making policies that were beneficial to corporations that used to work for and there's no doubt that at the end of the day corporation do you have so much power when it comes to the money to states and the dollars that they have at their disposal yet we've seen a lot of the consequences of that when it comes to oil companies like you just mentioned when it comes to nuclear energy when a great example would be the near meltdown in japan so what is really the cost of the power of corporations and the way that they're set up well here's the thing is corporations are not evil and they're not good they're a moral entity is they they exist for the sole purpose of making a profit so you know i i have a hard time believing that they're ever doing anything good just to do somethi

this i mean it's certainly wasn't hard to do he didn't have big shoes to fill he did replace donald rumsfeld of course. his view has evolved immensely as far as these wars and i want to play something he said just recently in a speech at west point and i will talk about it. still through clean patriotic messenger of enlightenment i'm sorry. sorry about that obviously was not defense secretary robert gates but i will be talking about it later in the show do we have the control room do we have the sound bite ok we don't have it but it was even mentioned in report i'm sure you guys know about this this is when robert gates told west point at a speech that anyone who would send people into wars in the middle east at this time would have to have their head examined so stephen let me go to you do you think that there was a change for gates as he went through this job over the years. oh there it was going to change it off whatever it is they had the pentagon or they had of any other. important us. or laws or anything additional power in the u.s. government. they really mad a little because what mat

we don't know -- i hate to sound like donald rumsfeld, but we don't know what we don't know. he cannot survive any further lies he lies to the ethics committee, she through. i hope he understands that. he can't lie to colleagues or the media any longer. he has to come clean with the ethics process. if so, then he can. there is three to me. three circles here. first is his wife. he was a friend of mine and my heart breaks for her. second are the colleagues. they can't expel him from the house. the third, he has 17 months to work on it and has to do all three. god help him if he lies more. he's threw. >> covering new york city politics, you have also tried to cover the story in recent days and not getting answers over several days now, you get the answers today. your take on today? >> i think thatthere is a lot of things going on here. when he said he has a lot of work to do with constituents, he does. when i went to the district last week, i found only one person out of about 25 or 30 that i interviewed that said that this should be put to rest. everybody else said they didn't

donald rumsfeld. henry kissinger, president ford. a good sub story. run down the river from the only provincial consular he had. this says yacht club. six marines and the consulate. not only looks like, thompson but acted like imperious a typical story. mike sullivan. nice glasses. right when they formed the v. there are backing up. that is going down the river. that is actually at the time was corporal steve hastings. he went on to become the longest serving yet this is marine in the history of the court. he fought iraq in afghanistan and only get out last february. hanson jerry berry, the chopper pilot, still handsome. the boys on the roof. the burn barrels. anything they couldn't burn on the roof there were put into burn barrels. who is that? is that you? that is steve counting the cash. iconic photo. that is 18 hours before. >> everything going on from the stories you're telling now, how well do you think that nixon, ford, and johnson, how well do you think they knew what was going on? >> they knew very well. >> do you think their permission was a

the lightning rod leader of that effort, defense secretary donald rumsfeld is forced to resign. his replacement: robert gates called back to government service from the presidency of texas a&m university. >> because our long-term strategic interests and our national and homeland security are at risk, because so many of america's sons and daughters in our armed forces are in harm's way, i did not hesitate when the president asked me to return to duty. >> reporter: taking over at the pentagon, the former c.i.a. director and aide to six previous presidents immediately burnished his reputation for blunt candor. as at his confirmatiohearing in december 2006... >> mr. gates, do you believe that we are currently winning in iraq? >> no, sir. >> reporter: that kind of straight talk also appealed to president obama, who asked gates to stay on after his election in 2008. in the end, the man who implemented the iraq troop surge policy for president bush would oversee for president obama the winding down of that war. in 2009 and 2010, gates also presided over two large troop deployments into

to ask a question, and you can find this on the c-span video library, but on sent 10th 2001, donald rumsfeldnnounced $2.3 billion lost by the pentagon, and it's never discussed since what happened the day after. why is it not discussed, and how did they lose roughly one tenth of the national debt at the time? just lose it. >> guest: i'm not familiar with they statement even covering the rumsfeld back then, but i think what he was referring to was a lot of the waste, fraud, and abuse in the pentagon. defense secretaries have been battling that for decades. the late education effort is ab attempt to act efficiencies under the current administration trying to save money by becoming more efficient in the pentagon. i have to say i'm a bit skeptical that it will be successful. the bureaucracy at the pentagon is so strong. the way that they do business is the way they do business, and people have tried to change it and have not succeeded. >> host: why have it not succeeded to have an auditing of the books? >> guest: well, it's just that this is an enormous institution. it's a very difficult challen

he was adviser to donald rumsfeld.from the syrian government came out about 120 police officers were killed. they may have been refusing orders to fire on innocent civilians and they were killed by the syrian government. >> that's quite possible. we've seen this happen already with soldiers refusing to open fire on their fellow country men being killed by the regime. some of them actually have gone over to the other side in this town as well reportedly, but it's really i sketchy information. jon: one would think that it would be difficult for a country as tightly controlled as syria is, it would be difficult for mobs there, and yes they've been demonstrating against the government, but to have the wherewhal and the weaponry to take on 120 and kill 120 armed police officers, that just doesn't bear out. >> yeah, it seems unlikely, and i think that to date we've watched the protests be remarkably peaceful in the face of massacre. the people go out and protest nonviolently, you hear it, peaceful, peaceful, more likely i th

which donald rahm spelled gave a speech about it should be investigated to find the money -- donald rumsfeld said was missing. guest: i have been at "the washington times" for 26 years and we are under new ownership. we are rebuilding the paper and going forward with a redesign and a rebuilding effort. i have been covering the pentagon for a long time, and it has been a fantastic experience. i have traveled all over the world. i have gone from china, russia, and backe including all points n between. host: when will of the redesign the launched? guest: we are now in the rebuilding process. they will be announcing a new editor in the coming days. host: wisconsin, go ahead. caller: congressional week is pensions and health care. what affected do they have -- host: pensions. guest: i am not aware that they have a major impact. that is always one of the shares -- one of the issues. a recall one of the editors that mentioned that certain legislation would be swiftly moved to converse. i told them healing thing that moves swiftly through congress is when they do their own pay raises. host: leon pan

unfortunately we lost an early opportunity to capture and kill him because of mistakes by then secretary donald rumsfeld. but that being done, the president did say something last night with which i strongly agree. he said, america, it is time to focus on nation building here at home. i couldn't agree more. i have been trying to do that for the last 2 1/2 years, but the roadblock down at the white house when i tried to rebuild the nation's transportation infrastructure. let's think for a minute we are borrowing and spending $120 billion a year in afghanistan. both to support our tops and to engage in nation building. building them schools, building them highways, building them bridges while our own schools, our own highways, our own bridges are crumbling and collapsing. $120 billion borrowed and spent in afghanistan. what could we do with that here at home? we could begin to address the backlog of 150,000 bridges on our national highway system that need repair or replacement. the 0 billion backlog on our transit systems for basic capital maintenance, let alone new investment in new trant systems to more

but on september 10th, 2001, donald rumsfeld announced $2.3 trillion lost by the pentagon. and it's never discussed since what happened the day after. why is it not discussed? how did they lose roughly 1/10 of the national debt at the time? just lose it? >> host: bill gertz? >> guest: well, i'm not familiar with that statement, even having covered rumsfeld back then. i think probably what he was referring to was a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse in the pentagon. defense secretaries have been battling that for decades. the latest effort is an attempt to at efficiencies under the of current administration, they are trying to save money by becoming more efficient in the pentagon. i have to say i'm a bit skeptical that it will be successful. the bureaucracy at the

the first thing i did was to retain every single senior official i received from secretary donald rumsfeldst of them have been with me through the state. and i have been fortunate enough to get another first-class roster from barack obama, providing with superb council on a range of issues and initiatives. these and other achievements and anything of consequence achieved in this department required successful collaboration between the military and civilian leadership. i have received forthright and loyal council from the leadership of the joint chiefs of staff and i will always be grateful to them for their cooperation and their friendship. i want to thank the chairman of the joint chiefs when i arrived. and my battle body of four years. mike mullen. without his effective leadership the record of the last several years would have been different. he was never shy about disagreeing with me, but never failed to stay loyal to me and the president that he served. he is the epitome of a leader and an officer, a man of supreme integrity and a good friend. the practice in the spirit of collaborati

unfortunately we lost an early opportunity to capture and kill him because of mistakes by then secretary donald rumsfeld. but that being done, the president did say something last night with which i strongly agree. he said, america, it is time to focus on nation building here at home. i couldn't agree more. i have been trying to do that for the last 2 1/2 years, but the roadblock down at the white house when i tried to rebuild the nation's transportation infrastructure. let's think for a minute we are borrowing and spending $120 billion a year in afghanistan. both to support our troops and to engage in nation building. building them schools, building them highways, building them bridges while our own schools, our own highways, our own bridges are crumbling and collapsing. $120 billion borrowed and spent in afghanistan. what could we do with that here at home? we could begin to address the backlog of 150,000 bridges on our national highway system that need repair or replacement. the $70 billion backlog on our transit systems for basic capital maintenance, let alone new investment in new transit systems t