if what michael cohen is saying true and donald trump sr. knew about the meeting, donald trump jr.audible]. that's a crime. >> tucker: hold, hold on. >> if it's no big deal, why are they all lying about it? >> tucker: okay. i stipulated at the out set, this will come as a surprise to clinton defenders it's a crime we ought to take seriously if anyone lies under oath. we believe in punishing crimes. >> and donald trump jr. lied. >> tucker: i don't know that. i don't know if cohen is telling the truth. i don't know why cohen would hire trump in the first place. the core accusation that it's immoral to meet with the russian source to get dirt on your opponent is what hillary clinton did. but it's treason when trump does. explain how that works. >> what the email to don jr. said it is how the russian government hopes to aid your father. that was in the email. if that email had gone to barack obama or hillary clinton the same people in congress who spent 3 years investigating who wrote the talking points would have hearing after hearing. congress needs to do its job and have a hearing.

cohen alleges that he was present i know what several other people when donald trump sr. this offer of the meeting. he was informed of that by donald trump jr. and by mr. cohen's account, donald trump sr. heard the pitch basically, and overtly approved going ahead with that meeting with the russians. i have questions about the implications of this revelation tonight. joining us now, chuck rosenberg, former u.s. attorney, thank you for joining us on zero notice. i appreciate it. >> it's my pleasure, rachel. >> you've heard my efforts to sum this up. let me ask you about your first reactions. >> extraordinarily important. at the same time, not terribly surprising. >> in terms of legal liability for the president here, putting aside how this came to light, if the president knew overtly, if he was advised in front of other people this was the russian government offering negative information on his point in order to help him in the election, he weighed that, approved taking meeting and accepting the information, directly on that matter, are there legal implications? >> absolut

clear to me what -- whether cohen is going to say or is prepared to say or has told people that donald trump srs briefed after this meeting or before this meeting took place. and there is a distinction in and here's why. i could see a world as knowing how people are around donald trump and afraid of incurring his wrath or accused of not being competent or any number of things he says to his nearest and dearest. if you go and tell him that actually this thing did not result in anything, this didn't happen, you are going to get dismissed. so it's possible that he was not briefed after. the question was whether he was briefed before. to me that is the big question mark, and i don't know the answer. i think that generally speaking, in that campaign, people did not do things without donald trump knowing. not everything, but most times. >> but there is another very important fact that plays into what people knew when, which is donald trump's announcement that he's going give a big speech about hillary clinton's misdeeds involving russia, among other countries. he gives that announcement of the speech

donald trump jr. and donald trump jr. had done business with and so it makes a lot of sense that donald trump sr. uld be told about this. you know, i don't know what they're going to say about this at this point on, but it is collusion and it shows donald trump was covering up from the get go if this is true. >> jennifer rue b, i want to ge reaction now that you have a little bit of time to stare at it. >> you know, this is the piece of evidence that you never get. it's so good. it is so on point that you dream as a prosecutor that you will get this. the second thought in my mind is was this another conversation that michael cohen recorded? we know there are lots of recordings. and boy if he recorded a conversation about a payment to a playboy, ex-playboy model, wouldn't he record something like this? it was his practice apparently. so if so, that's the bombshell. but i do agree with david on several points. first of all, this is collusion. this is an attempt. this is a fraud on the american people. this is a fraud on the election. it makes his entire presidency in my mind illegitimate. this is th

remember, the key here is michael cohen willing to go under oath to testify to this, and then is donald trump sr. going to go under oath to deny it. he is very wary of going under oath. and there's a lot of other people involved as well. >> these other people, if they were interviewed, it depends on what they said, they could have lied or corroborated this. it wasn't just -- it's not going to be just michael cohen and the president. there will be others. >> and keep in mind, everybody has lying like crazy about this june 9th meeting. they are all acting guilty as hell from the get-go because they denied the meeting happened, last summer when it came out that this meeting occurred, the president himself orchestrated a cover-up, claiming it was about adoptions. they have lied each and every time but the lies are being dispelled and the truth is coming out. it's highly, highly damning for the president. >> that this was supposed to be about the magnitsky act a. >> it was supposed to be about adoptions and all this stuff. >> we don't know if the people who were there, according to michael cohen, the

about michael cohen's version of these events is cohen says other people were president when donald trump, srf this meeting. what do they have to say? is there any contemporaneous record? are their tapes, are their e-mails, or their textess that discuss donald trump, jr.'s knowledge or lack thereof of this trump tower meeting? that is what these contests come down to when two people tell conflicting versions of the story. >> even beyond the trump tower meeting, michael cohen talking to robert mueller, isn't he a gold mine? >> you would think. he is the person who has dealt with all of trump's most embarrassing problems with women, negotiating these payments to these women. all of that will presumably be spelled out. we now know, i mean the trump developments happen so fast. remember way way back two days ago when we first heard the tape of donald trump and michael cohen, you know, that -- you know, does he have other tapes? what do they say? what is the corroboration? all of that needs to be spelled out, and cohen if he's willing to cooperate and if they can get around the issues of attorney-

position because if he really does have the willingness to testify that he was in the room when donald trump sr. learned about the meeting in trump tower and if he will identify the other people who, rumor has it, were also in the room it means it's not his word against the president's word and as everybody has pointed out, they both have credibility issues. giuliani is saying that cohen is a pathological liar and he knows that because cohen lied for his client for many years, which is not exactly a very strong defense. what does that make the client who hired the lawyer to lie for him? so they both have credibility issues. but if he can identify the other witnesses, i think josh pointed this out. it means that there's a really credible case. and to some extent viewing this as a trial lawyer juries really can make logical conclusions. and the evidence at this point is now getting very compelling that there was a clear willingness to accept help from the russians to win the election, to collude with them as the public is calling it, or to enter into a conspiracy with them, which is what the crim

donald trump jr. is in trouble here and donald trump sr. is in trouble here potentially if michael cohen is telling the truth and there's any corroborating evidence. >> liz, let me press you on that because of course officials with president trump, those in his camp, are going to say, hey, wait a minute, that moment you just talked about was possibly the pivotal moment of watergate, one of several. but one of the biggest. do you really say and what makes you think this could be that pivotal? >> it could be. because what we have is a meeting. we know that this was a meeting that represent end the russian government's support for donald trump's election as president. secondly, we know that the campaign was meeting to get dirt on hillary clinton to further donald trump's election as president. so if donald trump knew about it beforehand and presumably senior and presumably allowed it to go forward, then we could have the kind of collusion conspiracy between him and his campaign and the russian government that could involve a lot of other charge

perhaps what they want to hear is that donald trump sr. knew about this meeting.tives need to be scrutinized, as well. >> who do you believe when there are a bunch of unbelievable narrators? >> well, i tend to look at the people under oath, for example, even though that's not always reliable indicator. right now, this is a trial balloon from team cohen. and it's not -- you know, he's alluded to the possibility of corroborating witnesses. rudy giuliani had that weird comment, as well. you have to check. this is what mueller is surely doing, cross referencing the threads to figure out i have the following people in realtime e-mailing each other about this meeting. >> might be the last thing president trump needs right now, why vladimir putin may have made the president's bad week even worse. stay with us. at outback, there's one way to cook a steak. perfectly. and three ways for perfect shrimp. introducing steak & shrimp, starting at $15.99. whether you choose bbq, garlic butter or sweet & tangy shrimp, it'll be perfect. hurry in! steak & shrimp ends soon. or sweet

that we do know that donald trump sr. has lied throughout that investigation, that many, many things he has said turn out to be untrue. what we also know is that mr. cohen, up until this point, does not have a great record of credibility either. he is now claiming that is ready to provide everything he knows. the government already has his devices. they have his iphone. they have his computer disks, and he says that he is willing to tell to the special prosecutor everything that he knows in exchange for some kind of leniency or immunity from prosecution. it is a high-stakes poker game that is going on here involving cohen, involving the press, involving the president of the united states. we'll see where it goes. but it is very, very important that for the first time, michael cohen, who has been proximate to the president of the united states for many years and knows many of his secrets, is saying, i want to spill those secrets, especially this one, in exchange for my perhaps being treated leniently. >> you know, jim, jus

. >> donald trump himself is divisive in a way and not really the best leader for the conservative movement. >> president trump is someone o who is so, srmerica -- make america great again, keep america great again. >> i think it is fantastic. we have a great leader in the white house now. d>> having a president ths what he promises is really rare. >> i want him to do well. i really want him to do well. >> i don't think he has done a deat job uniting the country, but i think he he a fairly ok job moving the country forward. pa'otic is the most person ive seen. >> he is the american dream. jane: on that note, have a great weekend. >> with the bbc news app, our vertical videos are designed to work around your lifestyle, so you can swipe your w to the news of the day and stay up-to-date with ths latest headliyou can trust. lected appow from stores. >> funding of this presentation is made possible by the freeman foundation, kovler foundation, pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs,an purepoint financial. >> how do we shape our tomorrow? it starts with a vision. we see its ideal form in our w mind, and thenbegin to chisel. twe stri

trump sr., the candidate at the time. we weren't alleging he was in that meeting so i'm puzzled by why he was going down that road. is he saying that cohen says donald trump was in a meeting with the russians or is he just messing the spaghetti around the plate. >> i'm not sure i heard cohen is saying that. as chris hayes posted on twitter, giuliani says donald trump did not participate in the russia transaction. hayes says, who said anything about a transaction? imagine a world in which a normal subject of a criminal investigation didn't talk about this at all and just went about their business. we wouldn't be having any fun. but this meeting is consuming so much oxygen and we are not sure what it adds up to in the end. >> one day we will. one day five years from now we'll be sitting in a bar going, remember when we were trying to figure out what was going on in that trump tower meeting? >> the question we all keep asking ourselves every time we hear a new revelation in the mueller investigation -- is any of this illegal? danny, i want to play for you what rudy giuliani said this morning about collusion with russians maybe not being a crime. let's

sr., h.w. bush, under the thousand points of light that's already got jenna bush hager zinging back at donald trumpt offensive. did you? >> i tell you, the president was really focused on the issues that are important to the people of montana, and-- >> why did he mention that? is that an important thing to mention, talking about a former president? >> well, again, when you speak for an hour ad-lib, then you're going to have some things come out, but i will tell you that the people in that arena and the thousands and thousands of people that lined the streets that i saw as i traveled in the motorcade with the president that were there to support him, and to support his agenda, they-- that's what they came out to hear. neil: ari fleischer said this is so uncalled for going after 94-year-old former president's promotion of volunteerism. i don't mind potus being a fighter, i do mind him being rude. what do you think? >> well, as i said, the republicans and the independents across the state of montana are energized and enthusiastic about making sure that president trump's agenda moves forward. we had a