there are a lot of successes under donald trump's belt on his watch. there are a lot of failures too. mostly failures of behavior. well, what about the january 6th committee's revelation about the fact that president trump, you know appeared to be indifferent. to the violence that the capital even ignited some of that violence and when he learned that people were armed was not discouraging their presence at the capitol. doesn't that raise them questions in your mind and certainly the press if we just talk about the press the press has been slow to catch up with the january 6th to me. that's not the press making those revelations. it's the it's you know, the political body. i wouldn't say that press is slow. most of the press is covering it live, but i do write about it in my book one and i take on the president when it came to january 6th, and i have said live on fox news regularly that president's worst mistake on january 6th was holding a rally on the ellipse the same day that there was a vote in the congress. you don't put nitro and glycerin anywhere

to investigate donald trump. as i said last night, with each passing day, we will be hearing more about the witnesses for appearing before that grand jury, and, tonight cnn is reporting that a trump justice department official is cooperating with the grand jury, the former justice department staffer ken klukowski worked very closely at the that justice department with jeffrey clark was hoping to be named acting attorney general by donald trump so he could more effectively conspire with donald trump to overturn the presidential election. cnn is also reporting that the justice department is preparing right now to go to court whenever necessary to overrule with any possible claims of executive privilege made by former trump white house staffers who will be questioned in the grand jury. cnn reports that vice president mike pence's chief of staff mark short and the vice president's counsel greg jacob reached agreement with prosecutors before the grand jury testimony, quote, to stay clear of potential privilege issues,

and what did donald trump do? he grabbed a bag of popcorn and start watching tv, instead of doing would any reasonable commander-in-chief would've done. it's devastating. >> barry, a lot of people are asking, what should the prosecutors be doing. let me phrase it a different way. you have experience as a defense attorney. and i'm imagining -- imagine a world in which donald trump had a really good criminal defense attorney which, so far, we haven't seen that -- but if he did, would that criminal defense attorney be telling donald trump are his possible criminal liabilities in the testimony that was delivered last night? >> i think a good criminal defense lawyer would tell him, mr. client, you are in big trouble, mr. president. you have seen a case that is very simple for them to prove. a lot of people want to talk about whether it's seditious conspiracy. prosecutors really charged the hardest crime to prove. all they have to show is a significant crime, interfering with congress's certification of the vote, an off

at one point in 2016, when he was first running for office, donald trump said this. and in the middle of fifth ave and shoot somebody and i wouldn't lose any voters. that quote came to mind last week when audio from trump adviser steve bannon surfaced from october 31, 2020, just a few days before the presidential election. let's listen.- election. let's listen. jump will declare _ election. let's listen. jump will declare victory. - that doesn't mean he's a winner, he is. the early votes will count, they voted in may, so don't have an actual disadvantage. when you wake up on wednesday morning it is going to be a fire. also, if trump is losing by 10pm, leven pm, it will be crazier. he will sit right there and say they will have stolen it. if biden is winning it trump will do some crazy is winning it trump will do some cra_ some crazy expletive. residential _ some crazy expletive. residential declare - some crazy expletive. i residential declare victory when his own campaign advisers told him he had absolutely no basis to do so. they knew steve bannon audio demonstrates

donald trump said nothing to the employee about the attack. he said only, quote, mike pence let me down. >> i mean, you covered the trump white house. was he genuinely surprised that pence did not do what was unprecedented and unconstitutional? >> donald trump is very much that guy like you're telling me there's a chance? he holds on to the possibility of whatever he wants until the very last possible second. he was not only trying to convince mike pence up until january 6 to quote do the right thing as he said and to go against the constitutional duty to certify the votes but he was holding hope for it and i think ultimately not only genuinely disappointed but i don't know. it's difficult to get into that mindset but the reality that's where trump was. >> he tried to get this result changed and did all sorts of things including with mike pence and still so much question about what comes next and what does the justice department do and the attorney general do. he told reporters last week that no one is above the law and doesn't seem to be in a

how do you read donald trump's praise for russia? calling put in a very savvy guy and saying this is genius as he was preparing to invade ukraine, same from mike pump. trump's former secretary of state, colin, put in a very talented statesman with lots of gifts. what do you think behind that? well, it might come pay a case, i think he would, he just was trapped and clumsy wording. pompeiian has been robust in supportive of ukraine as robust as euclid while working for donald trump. donald trump's case look, every, everybody needs a hero and donald trump found he has invited me to put biden always says he has ukraine's back. you believe him? i think the ukraine that it taken us a while there been some missteps. the, by much the whole democratic world has as rally to be great too crazy, and this is more that can be done, especially can remember quite as a quite developed country ukraine at the same time as it is fighting a war, has to deliver pensions as operate hospital services has to keep children in school in the cities where the wa

none of our witnesses are at one point in 2016 when he was 1st running for office. donald trump said this, i could stand in the middle of 5th avenue and shoot somebody. and i wouldn't lose any voters that ho came to mind last week. when audio from trump advisor, steve bannon surfaced from october 31st 2020 just a few days before the presidential election. let's listen in what i do surgery ready for their victory? it was a need for one of the democrats, more of our people vote early that cow, their voting there is so. ringback going to have a natural disadvantage in from some take advantage of veterans affairs of water. so when you wake up wednesday morning it's going to be 1st. oh, it is losing by 10 or 11 o'clock at night is going to be even crazy. you know, could you just to write down to the soul advice when trump is ervish? pretty sure and of course, 4 days later, president trump declared victory when his own campaign advisers told him he had absolutely no basis to do so. what the new steve band and audio demonstrates is that donald trump's plan to falsely claim victory in 2020, n

to donald trump. so we know that james murray is a trump guy in every sense important to donald trump or donald trump would not have promoted him. to director of the secret service. in april of 2019, all of the democratic candidates for president had announced their candidacies and polling showed donald trump running far behind joe biden with joe biden at 51, and donald trump at 42. donald trump knew just like 2016, there was absolutely no way he was going to win more votes than the democrats. donald trump knew he was going to come in second with the voters, and his only hope was the electoral college, and this time, donald trump didn't want to take his chances with the electoral college. if it came to it, donald trump was obviously willing to try to change the outcome of the electoral college, and that is exactly what he did, and that is what he was still trying to do on january six. cassidy hutchinson testified that tony ornato told her, in the white house, that donald trump tried to go to the capit

it's donald trump looking out for donald trump.n a lifetime occurrence. >> i don't know that i agree with you, to be fair with all due respect. one doesn't have to be brilliant to attempt a coup. >> i disagree with that. as somebody who has helped plan coup d'etat, not here, but other places, it takes a lot of work. and that's not what he did. it was just stumbling around from one idea to another. ultimately, he did unleash the rioters at the capitol, as to that, there's no doubt. but not overthrow the constitution, to buy more time to throw the matter back to the states to try to redo the issue. and if you don't believe that, you're going to overreact. and i think that's a real risk for the committee, which has done a lot of good work. mostly when the witnesses testify, not when the members are opining. it is invariably the case that when you go too far, try to prove your case, you undermine it. and i think you got to give credit to the intelligence of the american people to listen to the witnesses and let them come to the conclus

in donald trump's case. look, every, everybody needs a hero and donald trump found he has been fly to ripple. biden always says he has ukraine's back. you believe him? i think the ukraine, that it taken us a while there been some missteps. the violence, the whole democratic world has as rally to be great to crane, and this is more that can be done, especially economically, remember quite as a quite developed country ukraine at the same time as it is fighting a war, has to deliver pensions as operate hospital services has to keep children in school in the cities where the war is and a bandpass to deal with this vast refugee diaspora. all of that cost enormous amounts of money while they fight a fight in which we are all at. once we are all involved, russia dismisses criticism of its ukraine invasion by talking about western hypocrisy. look what they did in iraq, 20 years ago. they say, put, you know, the point doesn't have 100000 people died in iraq for a war based on 2 big lives didn't. but what kind of poin

donald trump considers. he's there for conversations about seizing voting machines. he's there was a plan is floated to send false letters to state officials saying the doj, the justice department has found fraud and they should reconsider their election results. he's there when bill barr offered to turn in his resignation to donald trump and donald trump accepts it after bill barr concludes there is no widespread fraud in the election. and is there on january 6th when donald trump is in the oval office in the dining room and cipollone and others come in to tell him to try to call off the mob as they are storming the building, and donald trump refuses. according to cassidy hutchinson's testimony, the white house say that we all saw testify last week that he was there when donald trump said that he was accepting of the mobs endorsement of hanging like pants, that he thought they had the right idea. there may be other things that we don't even know about. i'm just saying what i know. pat cipollone would have h

for 187 minutes on _ accuses donald trump. for 187 minutes on january _ accuses donald trump.or 187 minutes on january six, - accuses donald trump. for 187 minutes on january six, this i minutes onjanuary six, this may him and unbridled destructive energy could not be moved, not by his aides, not by his allies. moved, not by his aides, not by his allies-_ moved, not by his aides, not by his allies-— his allies. not only was the former president _ his allies. not only was the former president accused l his allies. not only was the | former president accused of sitting idly by while the violence raged, witnesses say his actions made things worse. i think that in that moment for him to tweet out the message about mike pence, it was him pouring gasoline on the fire. hopes of a deal between ukraine, russia and turkey to allow rain exports through the black sea to resume. hundreds of police in riot gear begin to dismantle anti—government protest camps in the sri lankan capital, colombo. welcome to our viewers on pbs in america and around the globe. "he did not fail to act, he chose

, agents of donald trump, anything involving donald trump. if they commuted that they want to know about. that subpoena not, framed in your article tonight along with the information about marc short, these two grand jury witnesses who were just there, and others apparently that you are aware of who have been asked many questions about donald trump, how would you describe the level of focus on donald trump in some of the grand jury testimony? >> you know, here is a moment where i would like to say kudos to my colleagues on this byline along with me. josh ducey who covers nearly everything, spencer chu who covers the u.s. attorney's office. all of them applied into this territory for many, many days to try to unearth what these details were. what the team learned was that so much of particularly marc short's conversation with the grand jury was dominated by what did trump say, and what did trump do? what did trump tell his lawyers? then what was trump's reaction to that? that description over and over again of the grand jury prosecutor who's n

incredibly damaging to the law firm if mr cipollone not to tell truth tomorrow. >> years with donald trump his written statement. i don't normally bernie audience with trump statements but this was interesting for a number of reasons. he says, why would a future president of the united states have to have candid and important conversations with his white house counsel if he thought there was even a small chance that this person, essentially acting as a lawyer for the country, may someday be brought before a partisan and openly hostile committee in congress, or even a fair reasonable committee, to reveal the inner secrets of foreign policy or other important matters so bad for the usa! exclamation point. any less so striking because i guess the watergate hearings were in the early years of donald trump's nightclub life and new york. he may be the only american who didn't watch the white house counsel john dean testify under oath and bring down the nixon presidency in the process. >> exactly lawrence. to me i read that statement, it's just fear, fear, fear. he is scared. to the extent donald

there are the people in the world around donald trump. donald trump does have a few great gifts, and one of them is he's got miss wolf like ability to smell weakness. if there's a corrupt, if there's corruption, if there's weakness, if there's the ability to bully, he can sense that and people and use it for his own purposes. and he also saw that there are some inherent weaknesses in the american political system that we had not suspected before. but he, he said maybe in a sub rational way. but he's got the bully's instinct for the person to target. and he wasn't above threatening and intimidating people as best he could. and using pardons as a means of basically undermining investigations into those around him. you know, add the pressure in the constitution, the president inherited to kind of kingly, pardon, power, that the british kings used to have. but in modern times, this power has been kind of regularized presidents before trump did not pardon people at when they were. they delegated it to a to a committee that made recommendations. and then presence would do pardons, typicall

they are getting their news from donald trump, from donald trump from the new sources.y are not even watching the hearings so much as listening to what donald trump has to say about if you look around the guard signs, they say donald trump endorsed candidate, that still has a lot of sway in the arizona republican party which has become more conservative. the leadership of the republican party has censured republicans who have not questioned th election. it is a stark divide but these people stick by donald trump and they have since the beginning. jane: i was looking at your twitter feed and it seems it is still about donald trump himself. is he planning to run in 2024? reporter: members have been flying that he may be more inclined to announce a presidential campaign because of these january 6 hearings, because it gives them a platform to contest it, a chance to challenge any legal investigations as a partisan witchhunt, in his terms. if you look in the merchandise vendors behind me, you see a lot of donald trump 2024 t-shirts and signs. they were handing out flyers to

donald trump was the author. we the people for ourselves and our prosperity should not let donald trump be the finisher. thank you. i yield to the vice chair. >> thank you, very much. i want to thank our wit tpheuss for joining us today. the members of the shreubgt cmmittee may have additional questions for today's witnesses we ask you respond expeditiously in writing to the questions. without objection members will be allowed ten business days to submit statements for the records. including opening remarks and additional questions from the witnesses. i would now like to turn things to chairman thompson for a few closing words. >> the members of the committee and i appreciate and thank all persons who have come forward voluntarily to provide information to help protect our democracy. our and our work continues have we have made clear throughout the hearings our investigation is going forward. we continue to receive new information every day. we are pursuing many additional witnesses for testimony. we will reconve

at one point in 2016 when he was first running for office, donald trump said this. i could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and i wouldn't lose any voters. that quote came to mind last week when audio from trump advisor steve bannon surfaced from october 31st, 2020, just a few days before the presidential election. let's listen. >> it was trump's idea to declare victory. more of our people vote early that count. they're voting now. so they're going to have a natural disadvantage and trump's going to take advantage. that's our strategy. so when you wake up wednesday morning, it's going to be a firestorm. >> also if trump ising by 10:00 at night it's going to be even crazier. if biden is winning, trump is going to do some crazy shit. >> of course, four days later president trump declared victory when his own campaign advisors told him he had absolutely no basis to do so. what the new steve bannon audio demonstrates is donald trump's plan to claim victory in 2020 no matter what the facts actually were was premeditated. perhaps worse, donald trump b

it is the cult of donald trump. the virus that took over the host and there's no way to kill the virus without killing the host. they are married to trump. they made it. they have to break it. there's no separating it, and as long as he has his sights on the nomination in 2024, jason, i don't see anyone prior it from donald trump's cold hands >> troy, i want to play some sound from mark short talking about not only sort of trump and the current state of the party, but also one of the shining lights of the republican party and when there also sort of speaks toib personal conflicts we'll be seeing in the coming months. >> well, i don't know if mike pence will run for president in 2024, but i don't think mate gaetz will have an impact on that fact. i'd be surprised if he was still voting. it's more likely he'll in prison for child sex trafficking by 2024, and i'm actually surprise that had florida law enforcement still allows him to speak to teenage conferences like that, so i'm not too worried about what matt gaetz thi

republicans that have worked for donald trump, not worked for donald trump. not every candidate wants to be in their late 70s when they run for president or possibly become president. so you have republicans in their late 50s to 60s, early 70s by the time the campaign starts that are not simply going to wait around for 2028 or 2032. they'll look at an open seat and give it a shot now. though trump remains very strong with republican voters, a lot of the struggles he's had in the key primaries where he has endorsed candidates who have lost, have made republicans who want to take his place think it is worth giving it a shot. then you ask the question, could youngkin compete with trump? we don't know. he could fall on his face. when you have democrats coming after you, instead of the media, it is a different ball game. he presents as a contrast. a throwback to a 1980s, 1990s style, sunny conservative who is still very conseconservative. if you look at his recor, they can accuse him as being a centrist, but he is not one. that's why people who like him believe he

then donald trump announced -- the congressman from new york.hen donald trump announced he did not want any investigation and then kevin mccarthy pulled the plug on that and turned against the commission they had been advocating, five republicans, five democrats, equal subpoena power. that was gone. at that point speaker pelosi said we will not sweep this under the rug. we will have a select committee in the house of representatives and at that point mccarthy brought forth the slate of people. speaker pelosi accepted a majority of them, but not those who were involved in the event, including jim jordan, who was at meetings related to january 6. at that point mccarthy said we will not include anyone at all. then speaker pelosi said we are still going to have a bipartisan committee. that is why we have bennie thompson as the chair, we have liz cheney, the chair of the republican conference on the house side, adam kinzinger who you know is a distinguished vet and is still in the service today. we have operated in a bipartisan way. you will note the

the press is also going after donald trump fueled by the same poll. win, the hill hearings have hurt him, ron desantis is gaining support. it's t hardly shocking. but -- it's hardly shocking. but trump told new york magazine he's made the decision, and it's just a question when he announces. you can guess what the decision is. washington post citing unnamed advisers saying he'll probably announce in september. of course, that would change the nature of the midterms. so it looks like this media campaign ain't working. >> no, it certainly isn't and, in fact, i think it's kind of putting chum in the water, sort of daring him to announce earlier. but i do think a media-driven announcement would be a mistake on his part. if you really are the powerful force here, if you really are the t-rex, the king of the jungle, then i think you can actually wait. you don't need to come out here early. and the fact is if he is baited into an early announcement, i actually think that gives people more time to familiarize themselves with the alternatives, more time to com

were they the weapon that donald trump deployed? >> absolutely. ld aren't be here if there wasn't a tweet that galvanized a very violent faction, and i've said this before and i'll say it again. if it were just trump supporters who were vociferous and participating in non-violent first amendment activities there would have not been a january 6th in the way that you're showing it on the screen right now. the call to arms went to the most violent individuals that we all know that are violent and that were standing back and standing by, and we know that those words were said and we know that they responded to that in full force and they started planning in full view, in plain view of all of the authorities. they weren't hide. they were planning on how to bring guns. they were planning on sharing information on how to enter the capitol. blueprints, floor plans, if you will. so this is what we saw on that day and it is being borne out right now by the january 6th hearings. >> when you hear the testimony of cassidy hutchinson who makes clear that trump k

, still love donald trump.hy do they feel this flawed candidate, the flawed person, they still feel like he's the best guy for them. what is it about what joe biden and the democratic congress is doing today in washington and across the country that makes them feel like donald trump is my only choice or the best choice for me? because that's what they're doing. it's not donald trump versus nobody. it's donald trump versus what's going on right now. and i think that's what's happening. >> that's interesting. why do you think it is? i mean, it's not -- there are legitimate reasons, right? people think that washington is ignoring them. they still think that. >> they want a fighter. >> they still want a fighter. >> people do want a fighter, and the challenge at the moment, you have a divided country. so different sides want a leader that's going to fight for them. what you need to do is change that narrative and recognize that we succeed as a nation when we come together and take on those common challenges. i would

now, throughout all of this, donald trump continues to be, well, he continues to be donald trump. he was in arizona over the weekend, stopping for the states election, denying republican candidate for governor. and of course, making himself out to be the real victim of january the 6th. >> if i renounced my beliefs, and if i agreed to stay silent law, and if i stayed home and took it easy, if i announced that i was not going to run any longer for political office, the prosecution of donald trump would immediately stop. you know that, right? it would immediately stop. they would go on to the next victim. >> it is not clear at all, tonight, that donald trump will be able to wriggle out of this one. we will see, though. leading off our discussion tonight is paul butler, a professor of law at georgetown university, and former federal prosecutor. jill wine-banks, who served as assistant watergate prosecutor. they are both msnbc legal analysts. and also with us, stuart stevens, a veteran of five republican presidential campaigns, and author of it was all a lie: how the republican party b

donald trump twice.e. i also want donald trump and his element to be indicted. i think that this now is on merrick garland and while that is the shift from republicans and democrats because democrats now want merrick garland to take action. and whether or not donald trump is indicted, this are people around him who should. >> scott, i want you to weigh in but first, take a listen to what republican congressman adam kinzinger had to say about that issue of criminal charges. he is another member of the committee. >> we have proven different components of a criminal case against donald trump or people around him in every hearing and i think taken in totality this represent s the greatest effort to overturn the will of the people to conspire against the will of the people and conspire against american democracy we ever had. it's up to justice now to make a decision. >> i don't know whether he will be indicted. i've always felt the georgia i've always felt the georgia case was actually more dangerous for him

. >> donald trump. theeveryone that continued support him, not from the deep state or democrats or people looking for a witch hunt but by people that worked for donald trump until the end. we are on verdict watch now in the steve bannon trial. cnn live at the coururthouse ne. when you're tired of looking at your tired old bath, we fit your style, with hundreds of design options. bath fitter. it just fits. visit bathfitter.com tbook your free consultation. [ "back to life" by soul ii soul ] what if you could change your surroundings with the touch of a finger? now you can. biometric id... inside the innovative, new c-class. subway's drafting 12 new subs for the all-new subway series menu. let's get a quick take on the #1 pick, the philly. double provolone and juicy steak?! looks like we got another philly fan. nope. the new subway series. what's your pick? >>> a jury right now has the steve bannon case and began deliberating about 40 minutes ago after a climatic final day of arguments. prosecutors closin

appreciate it. >>> how pervasive are donald trump's election lies? to look to the more than 100 republican candidates running right now who still say the 2020 results were illegitimate. a look at one of those trump-backed candidates coming up next. you are watching special coverage of the january 6th committee hearings on msnbc. e hs on a fixed budget, remember the three ps. what are the three ps? the three ps of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price. . a price you can afford, a price that can't increase, and a price that fits your budget. i'm 54, what's my price? you can get coverage for $9.95 a month. i'm 65 and take medications. what's my price? also $9.95 a month. i just turned 80, what's my price? $9.95 a month for you too. if you're age 50 to 85, call now about the #1 most popular whole life insurance plan available through the colonial penn program. it has an affordable rate starting at $9.95 a month. no medical exam, no health questions. your acceptance is guaranteed. and this plan has a guaranteed lifetime rate lock so

another very important cooperating witness, with the justice department criminal investigation of donald trump, and a potential group of coconspirators that includes most prominently, trump white house chief of staff mark meadows, and attorney rudy giuliani who is no longer legally license to practice law. here is the witness, who we learned today is cooperating with the justice department criminal investigation of donald trump. >> did rudy giuliani ever suggest that he was interested in receiving a presidential pardon related to january 6th? >> he did. >> miss hutchinson, white house chief of staff mark meadows, did he ever indicate he was interested in receiving a presidential pardon related to january 6th? >> yes he did seek that pardon, ma'am. >> she is going to be a very helpful witness to federal prosecutors, investigating donald trump. abc news was the first to report today, that cassidy hutchinson, a former top advisor to then president donald trump's chief of staff mark meadows, has recently cooperated with the justice department -- the department of justice investigation into the eve

so this was always one of my biggest concerns from the very beginning about donald trump, and even though in till we reached the trump presidency, i'm not the kind of person who ever would have been supportive of indicting a former president of the united states. we don't want to be a country where the successor is indicting the predecessor, especially for political reasons. this is different. if we do not hold donald trump criminally responsible for what he did, i believe the great danger is that it will happen again except next time it would succeed. look, i happen to know that you are good friends with some republican members of the house. and when you talk to them privately, what sorts of gravitational forces take them to a different place than you? or if you were a republican, take your hat off for a moment and you're a republican. would you be able to make the same statement that you just made and, and politically survive? probably not. i was so impressive about what lives chain in one of my very good friends and congress adkins are you are good for. i do have him. he and i co lead

we knew that donald trump -- it was known donald trump did want to go to the capitol.ly he commands the mob to go there on january 6th, but the fact that days ahead of time key rally organizers are saying this is going to be an unexpected announcement, and we can't spread this too widely. we can't let the national park police know. that added a level of sort of clandestine behavior that i think adds an extra layer onto what we already know about the way trump was acting around january 6th, that he didn't want too many of his most sober advisers to know about what he was planning to do with the crowd directing them to the capitol. that was probably my largest takeaway. obviously the implication from liz cheney that there was potential witness influencing or witness tampering going on by the former president was a major development. and we also learned a lot more information about that completely crazy december 18th meeting inside the oval office, and then i think we saw, also, donald trump's power over the crowd, about how he could command them to go to the capitol, but

all about donald trump. we've heard cipollone's junior counsel, we've heard people who talk to cipollone. including, you know, the witness last week cassidy hutchinson, who is amazing, and poised, and gave direct testimony about what's cipollone said. but hearing it from the horse's mouth, and what he said to donald trump is the most important. we -- from saint certain, things claiming bogus privileges in the like. and i sure hope, cipollone is a very good lawyer, i hope he recognized those claims what they are, which is bogus. but, we don't know the contours, we don't know what happened, but i have to say those witnesses there for eight hours, it doesn't seem like a witness that is invoking much privilege. it certainly can happen, and can have some cheap conversations that trump probably really wants the american people to not learn about. we will have to find out tomorrow. >> phil, the committee is expected to zero in on a meeting that took place in the white house on december 18th. where trump and his all

, i'll take donald trump?es that tell you about where we are and what does -- what has this committee put in front of the country in such a stark, naked way that you can't turn your eyes away from and that signature moment and what the capstone of the day, walking into the residence, the sun is set, the fires are still burning up on the capitol and the president's response is damn, you know that mike pence really disappointed me. so i don't know what more clarity we need. we have his mind, the mens rea, we understand it now was i don't want it say i lost the elections. after everything we've been told, everything we know, i don't want to say that. republicans mccarthy. you told him and he's still saying i don't want to say it. so what's your response? okay. okay. we just won't talk about it, mr. president. >> yeah. >> this is where we are. we have an election coming up and people have got to look at this. >> yeah. i mean, look, pete strzok, i want to show you congressman raskin makes a similar point in terms o

and not directly implicate donald trump. they were only doing these things because trump ordered them to, and wanted them to, and told them to. and he stayed updated regularly on exactly what they were doing. it is as if there were reams upon reams of news footage of ronald reagan during the other iran scandal, yelling at george h. w. bush about, why aren't you doing the iran contra scandal harder? you must hate trump if you're not doing the iran scandal so hard. you are failing me. it is baffling that anybody can actually think that you can get a scapegoat without immediately implicating donald trump as the very next measure. >> and meadows, you're reporting and that question from the committee. i would be nervous if i were him, particularly post-cassidy hutchinson. we are going to be seeing how that plays out, as always, asawin suebsaeng, great reporting, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> still to come, senator lindsey graham is a quote, necessary material witness, so says a fulton county judge who ordered graham to appea

and the screaming and yelling, and rudy giuliani, and just, you know, trying to impress donald trump with her toughness, and with no evidence, it is an embarrassment to this country. it is a stain on the oval office. and it was clearly the catalyst for trump targeting january 6th, as the combination when there were no legal strategies lasting, and was now just time to use violence, to stop the peaceful transfer of power. this is what happens in banana republics around the country. this does not happen in the united states. but they are still at it, lawrence. they're still trying to pave the way to do it again in 2024. >> i think we have to stop saying it doesn't happen in the united states. since we just heard it described, as happening in the actual oval office. and, i want to go to a piece of the video with pat cloning, where liz cheney asked him about the need to abide by the rules of the courts, and how the president must abide by the rules of the courts. and she asked him something else there too, which i think is gonna be important next week. let's listen to that. >> everybody,