of cultural artifacts is the return of the remains of our ancestors also with us is professor donald ventura so big jane and dick own he's a comer room born curator and educator who believes it is no secret that colonialism incent all its forms a crime against humanity. and a warm welcome to sue the claims of m for apologist corona lenz who joins us on the line from bines the western german city she's at the. time president of germany's goods institute and she argues that the long overdue return of artifacts from the colonial period is also an opportunity for cultural exchange between germany in europe and the countries of origin. of so. many occurred let's begin with you if i may a figure expert say this at least 80 percent of africa's cultural heritage is housed in european museums a lot of it simply gathering dust it seems shocking to me how does it seem to you it is it is also shocking. to me and believe me i have been. been did this for quite a long time demanded is. that in the long period where you have been to face what has changed in the battle you have. changed bet you 5 in the las