that's cnn's donie o'sullivan talking to those two people. and we'll have more from his report ahead in this hour. first let's go to cnn's ryan nobles at the capitol. what more can you tell us about jacobs' and mark swartz's testimony? >> it clearly means the department of justice investigation into election meddling is expanding in a big way. both marc short and greg jacob are two key players. when they began their cooperation with the january 6 select committee, it opened the door to a whole line of pressure that was put on vice president mike pence during that period of time. it provided insight into the push to have pence stand in the way of the certification of the election results on january 6th. efforts to get him to accept a false slate of electors. there are so many different connections that pence's office has to the attempts to stand in the way of the election e being certified for joe biden. and the fact that jacob and marc short, who were both very cooperative with the committee and told them a lot about what they knew during tha

. >> and congressman, take a listen, cnn's donie o'sullivan went to a trump rally in arizona and spoke about the january 6th hearings. i want you to listen to what these trump supporters had to say. >> have you guys been watching the january 6th hearings at all? >> no. >> no? >> no, we saw when it all went down and saw a lot of the blm and antifa people in the building as well. and it's just -- it's just nonsense. >> i think 800 people now have been charged, right? none of them are black lives matter or antifa. >> yeah. that doesn't mean anything. >> they're not charging them. they have not been brought into court for their due process because they have not been arrested. >> hunter biden hasn't been arrested. >> you have both sides or are you getting one side of the story? >> you mean like the side that attacked the capitol? >> you really believe that happened? >> they're living in an alternative reality. the only thing missing is a tin foil hat and a black helicopter. people believe what they want to believe and they listen to the pormer president, and they believe what they're hearin

many of the force that helped to fuel big lie including the president, if you watch you know, donie o'sullivanorts, those people are still with us and they still actually believe none of that stuff happened, at least a say they do. but go on, sorry. >> we had different situation then we did with richard nixon, who resigned the presidency, of course. and tim, you've talked about this, i'm sure, 1 million times. if he had had fox news, if he had had social media, i'm not sure that he would have resigned. and if he had been indicted i am not sure that he would have tried to do what donald trump would, which would be to incite his supporters to believe that this was a political prosecution. so, it's a more complicated situation than the country and prosecutors faced 45 years ago. >> yeah, thank you tim, thank you david, i appreciate it. senator joe manchin doing a one 80, agreeing to a surprise deal on energy and health care bill with senate majority leader chuck schumer. how far will it go in boosting democrats and president biden? we will discuss. i know there's conflicting information about dup

. >> mckay, we saw these dueling trump and pence rallies in arizona in donie o'sullivan's piece. is the former president have positioning himself as an alternative to trump in 2024? is there a lane for him? >> i think he's betting that there is. i'm not sure whether that's going to turn out to be a good bet. but he is clearly distancing himself from trump to a certain extent, right? he is not disowning donald trump. he's not disowning certainly donald trump's voters. but he is trying to return to his previous place in the party, which was that of a -- governor -- >> so, we've lost your audio. i'm sorry. >> in terms of the justice department's investigation, i mentioned earlier, we mentioned marc short testified in front of the grand jury, as well as pence's formal counsel, greg jacobs. that's a pretty big deal. >> it's a huge deal. we have not been entirely sure where the department of justice investigation has been going. and that's a big understatement, i know. the fact that there is a grand jury and that, as part of that, these two very important figures not just in the trump

donie o'sullivan went to ozariza to speak with them.me of the language may be offensive. >> he didn't move. >> do you believe the election was stolen? >> yes. >> do you have faith in elections now? >> no. >> do you believe the 2020 election was stolen? >> no, i don't believe the 2020 election was stolen. i believe that there are aspects of the 2020 election that were unfair. >> in arizona republican party at odds with itself, trump and pence holding competing events. >> we need a landslide so big that the radical left cannot rig it or steal it. even if they try. >> at trump's rally a bonfire of conspiracy theories. have you been watching the january 6 hearing? >> i have. >> what do you think? >> i think that they are auu of bullshit. >> why? >> because you have both sides or are you getting one side of the story? >> you mean like the side that attacked the capitol? >> yáu really believe that happened? >> i was there. >> okay. i have a lot of people that were there too. >> and? >> and saw things that it wasn't what they say it was. >> bu

in fact, our donie o'sullivan went to the duelling trump/pence rallies in arizona and this is what some told him about the hearings. let's listen. >> have you been watching the january 6th hearings? >> i have. >> what do you think? >> i think they're a bunch of bull. >> why? >> well, because you have both sides. are you getting one side of the story? >> you mean, like the side that attacked the capitol? >> you really believe that happened? >> i was there. >> okay. i have a lot of people that were there too. >> and? >> and saw things that it wasn't what they say it was. >> have you been watching the january 6th hearings at all? >> no. >> no. >> no, we saw it when it all went down and saw a lot of the blm and antifa people in the building as well, and it is just -- it is just nonsense. >> i think like 800 people now have been charged, right? >> yeah. >> and none of them are black lives matter or antifa. >> yeah, that doesn't mean anything. that doesn't mean anything. >> they have not been brought into court for their due process because they have not been arrested. >> hunter biden hasn't