. >> host: how did james jones do for president obama, and how's tom donlan doing? >> guest: well, the jones appointment is a puzzle. i'm sure if we could get inside the president' mind, he would explain why he appointed james jones. there are a couple of good reasons. jones was a highly respected senior retired marine general who had shown his integrity by refusing to be considered for chairman of the joint chiefs under donald rumsfeld because he thought correctly that donald rumsfeld who was george w. bush's o secretary of defense was, basically, pounding people down and not, not letting them show any strength in terms of their own, their positions. one of these people who gained power by sort of squashing everybody else. whereas others say like george bundy tend to get power by enhancing other people, so they would work together. anyway, um, the -- you had, i'm sorry, i'm a little bit -- >> host: oh, how did general jones -- >> guest: okay. so he was -- obama felt as person who wasn't deeply involved in, he probably felt he wanted a senior person, needed somebody