dorrie clark is a marketing strategist and professor at duke university school of business. good to see you. >> thanks, j.j. >> i like this topic because i'm a little bit confused by it, right? in the old days, you could just have a great company. right there is martha stewart. her brand was her personal brand. but if you were building, you know, dish washers, you didn't have to be out there. your dishwasher spoke for itself. why do we need to think about our personal brands? >> a personal brand is important these days for business owners for a few reasons. number one, the competition for top talent is enormous. and if you have a strong, personal brand as being a good, innovative, fward-thinking leader, that incense adviseds the right talent to want to come to work for you. the same thing goes with finding investment. investors with, there's a long saying saying you bet on the jockey, not on the horse. they want a business leader that is able to drive the business forward. if you have a strong brand, that's -- >> so it's interesting. so it's not necessarily to the consumers.