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joining us is doug kass, a cnbc contributor.in the rising rate environment, who stands to gain the most? >> well, two weeks ago on "fast," i believe michelle was subbing for you, mel, which is why i thought the bull market in bonds was over, so i had a lot of reasons for it. we can discuss this another time but let's assume for tonight's argument that it's a given that rates are about to launch a gradual multi--year rise. the question is what industries and companies are the winners and losers? i think there are obvious and less so obvious losers and winners, so let me start with the losers. first, vulnerable companies and industries with large debt-to-equity ratios, obviously. particularly those that have a large amount of variable rate debt and have low returns on assets, so i did a bloomberg screen for this, and i'd be happy to post it on cnbc.com tomorrow morning. it's a good starting point for research, and it comes out that the most vulnerable industry sectors would include telecom. i'm finding a lot of long distance broad

. >> yeah, doug kass, i think you playes this correction but corrections can be healthy, doug.t it ask you, are you back buying stocks given the fundamentals were he talking about. >> 2340 no. i think it is premature. first, happy passover to my friend tabias. >> i will see you for the holiday if you want me up. >> i would love to. i missed you last year. i'm concerned that we face the monetary cliff at the end of june when qe is concluded. i'm afraid that we face a fiscal cliff at the end of the year. higher marginal taxes. lower government spending. then we have this election. you dedicated a lot to obama in the first segment. my concern is that it is increasingly likely that democrats. regain the presidency, which is not marketed business friendly. that republicans will regain the house and possibly when the senate and that's gridlock that we don't need. we have to address our fiscal em balances. every minute that we waste. the deficit expands and expands. >> you're right about not doing the entitlement reform this that kind of mixed gridlock. but i want to know, the possibi

doug kass of seabreeze. you were talking mo mo stocks.ot of the internet related stocks that i know you're watching. lemon was a big mover. >> last year we saw some of these mo mo stocks hit a wall. green mountain. netflix. but deckers was one that was down. these guys make uggs. this is a company that was growing very fast the last two years. up hundreds of percent over that time period. last year it hit a wall. expected growth is at 4% at this point. talking about what doug just said about cocktail parties and everyone owns apple, last year when they were at highs and our main guy was wearing uggs, that was the time to short it. it was all over there. here's a stock in a market like this rebounding. it was down 10%. >> at crew, uggs. >> i don't own any. >> who doesn't? >> you. >> no i do. i have a great guy that cleans them. they're fantastic. >> are you serious? >> i get cold. i wear them around the house. >> just your uggs? >> sometimes. >> a blue chip on an emerging play. tim has got the trade straight ahead. at liberty mutual, we kn

. >> doug kass points out when microsoft turned $70 billion of value to the shareholders, 2004, they had the special dividend, they announced the significance buy back, $30 billion worth of stock buy back, and then the stock was actually down after the announcement. the difference rearly lclearly apple grows much faster. >> we think thus far. sglt end market is much faster. pcs versus everything. >> the return to capital. but did you say sell on the news. do you think there is an anticipation that there will be some sort of sell on the news mentality? >> i think we could. we certainly could. the stocks rallied 100 points in five weeks. p so you have some of the buyers were actually anticipating this. but i don't think it's a long lasting sell on the news because we have earnings going up, product cycle stories coming out. iphone5, itv. under job, they can't he witell might go. now hers at least telling us things. >> if they decide to say we're going to do everything, perfect use of cash, we'll do a buy back, pay dividend, and we actually may start to selectively look for acquisition,