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few people know this world as well as doug rushkoff, the first man to describe viral media back in 1996. he has written multiple books about the impact of technology on humanity. he joins me now. i read this book, "present shock ," when it came out 15 years ago i think. he wrote a book about jen x years ago. you've been thinking about and watching this for a long time. let's start with how you think about -- everyone always thinks anything is bad versus there is something new happening here that is bad. >> well, i guess we are asking is it a question of degree or fundamental difference. so yes, people have been worried about this. the public education movement in england back in the 1800s was that so people could be informed enough to vote, you know, and i was just thinking as i was watching this show today, walter lipman, early 1900s, was a progressive, as progressive as any of us and he got hired by woodrow wilson to run a campaign to get america to support the war after woodrow wilson had run on a piece platform. it works so well, he was like -- >> shocked and appalled. >> at himself