at least to douglass. harold: as lincoln comes to baltimore, he says he knows what a fugitive slave feels like on the underground railroad. david: stories about him hiding, yeah. douglass thought that was pretty cool. lincoln had to hide like a fugitive. actually, back in rochester, douglass did go out and see lincoln at the whistle stop, when he was passing through rochester on the way to washington and commented on the historic weight of that. his first inaugural, to douglass, was way too much olive branch and not enough sword. he basically hated that speech. there is a context here. this is obviously april of 1861. the secession winter has been a horrible time for everybody. terrible fear. where is this going? nobody knows. harold: and it is four months. david: it goes on for months. douglass believes -- not without good reason -- that the republicans will probably engineer some compromise with the south. there were all kinds of compromise measures in the air. he was not part of any republican network a

douglass. and what happens next?t has to be one of the great scenes that no dramatist has tried to re-create. david: there is a screenwriter working on it right now, i hope. harold: what happens at the meeting? edna: ok. [laughter] certainly, we need to put it in context. steaming fromill the fact that he never got his commission to serve and include these black soldiers, but he continues to work on behalf of these soldiers. and so he is telling lincoln, these people are putting their lives on the line and they are getting seven dollars a month instead of the $13 that white men are getting. and lincoln's response is, we are doing the best we can. pretty much, you are lucky that we are allowing black men to serve because there are so many people in the country who don't want that. so we are taking a chance. and he is right, there were lots of americans who did not want black men serving in the war. so lincoln tells him, be patient. this will come. they will eventually get the same pay. but for right now, there is not

douglass's answer to that was this. the 3/5 clause doesn't protect slavery, it recognizes slavery did exist at the time, it doesn't guarantee it. it rewards states at abolished slavery by giving the more representation in congress. the fugitive slaves clause does not refer to slaves. it says persons from home labour is due, but labour is not to do from slaves. it's because of injustice, not given due process of law. labour can't be do from that. labour is due from indentured servants. it's true, runaway appearances and indentured servants was a serious legal problem in the the importation clause allowed congress to ban slavery in 1808, which it promptly did in 1808, so these provisions, all though they referred to slavery, do not protect slavery. this is an important point. the anti-slavery constitutional thinkers did not say the constitution bans slavery. obviously, it did not. they said three things. they said, first, it provides no guarantee of slavery at the federal level. second, it allows congress if it chose to d

holzer, edna greene medford and david blight talked about the views of abraham lincoln and frederick douglass on emancipating those held in slavery. they track their evolution on the issue from early in their careers through the civil war. the new-york historical society hosts the event. louise: good morning, everyone and happy new year to everyone. welcome to the new york historical society. i am the president and ceo. as always i am thrilled to see , all of you here in our beautiful auditorium this morning. today's program, "frederick douglass, abraham lincoln and emancipation" clintonresident bill historical lecture. i would like to thank our great trustee and benefactor, bernard schwartz, for his generosity and making this event and many of our programs possible.

and noted abolitionists who john brown had met frederick douglass some years before and shared with douglas his plan for handing out records to slaves in the vicinity of harpers ferry, you take the weapon and given to the slaves, the slaves used those weapons to strike for their freedom and john brown said to frederick douglass if you come along, the slaves we appeal to see that you are part of this, all of a sudden i have more credibility than i would otherwise and frederick douglass said i don't think so. he said i am a writer not a fighter. he knew that john brown's raid was a suicide mission because frederick douglass had been a slave and he understood the first thing slave would do would ask what am i getting into here? as bad as slavery is i don't want to go to immediate death and as soon as i take up weapons, that is a capital crime, for a slave to take up weapons and i will be murdered and i will be killed and i will only do this if there is a reasonable chance this will succeed and i will wait and see if there's a reasonable chance to succeed. the other thing is john brown

a very noted abolitionist and frederick douglass from some years before and shared the plan handing out weapons to the vicinity of harpers ferry there was a federal arsenal but they use those weapons to strike for their freedom and then to say to frederick douglass if the slaves that we appeal to and frederick douglass said now i don't think so it basically what he said is i'm a writer, not a fighter but secondly he knew that john brown was a suicide mission. and the first thing the slaves would do it is ask themselves i don't want to go to immediate death and that is a capital crime. and then a way to succeed. but john brown discovered to his chagrin but it's easy to get into hard to get out of the men to come in the middle of the night and with that armory there and then to and then resisted by one guy first he was a black man and the shots are fired and the child wakes up and then there is this attack in the curtains for john brown harpers ferry and then it is really easy to aim the weapons down on the armory the others are pin down and then to resist the fire. and then robert e.

because frederick douglass' had a slave. and he understand that the first thing the slaves would do is ask themselves what am i getting into here? as bad as slavery is, i don't want to go to immediate death and as soon as i take up weapons then that is a capital crime and any slave state. for slaves to take up a weapon. and i will be murdered. and i will be killed. and i will only do this if there's a reasonable chance this will succeed, and i will wait and see if this has a reasonable chance to succeed. and the other thing is, that john brown discovered to his chagrin, that harpers ferry is really easy to get into but it's hard to get out of. so actually getting into town, especially when nobody is expecting an attack, they come in the middle of the night and there's a couple of sleepy guards around the armory there. and they are able to force their way to the armory, but they resisted by one guy first, ironically the first person the first casualty was a black man, and then some shots are fired in the town wakes up and the

frederick douglass said no i don't think so and basically what he said is i'm a writer not a fighter but secondly he knew that john brown's raid was in effect a suicide mission. frederick douglass had been a slave and he understood the first thing that slaves would do is ask themselves what am i getting into here and as bad as slavery is i don't want to go to immediate death and as soon as i take up weapons that is a capital crime and enemy slave state to take up weapons. i will be murdered and killed and i'll only do this if there's a reasonable chance that this will succeed and i will wait and see if there's a reasonable chance. the other thing is that john brown discovered to his chagrin that harpers ferry is really easy to get into but it's hard to get out of. and they calm in the middle of the night when they were not expecting attack and a couple sleepy guards around the armory and they forced themselves into the army but they resisted by ironically the first person or the first casualty was a black man and then some shots were fired and the town wakes up and there's this attac

so was frederick douglass too critical of america or too optimistic or both?hink what we have to do is kind of figure out a way of thinking about our history which takes the less than appealing elements into account but on the other hand doesn't just throw out the entire experience. i think most people are mature enough to be able to hold what might seem to be complicated ideas at the same time. gerry: professor that was fascinating, thank you very much indeed. debates will go on for a long time. thank you very much for joining us. happy holidays to you. >> pleasure to talk to you. gerry: for many of us pandemic lockdowns dashed the dreams of going home for christmas. father gerald murray wilt give his guidance how to keep the faith during this difficult time next ♪ ♪ ♪. gerry: this year americans are experiencing a christmas unlike any other. instead of warmth of gathering with family and friends there is increased isolation and loneliness spurred by pandemic lockdowns. joining me from the archdiocese of new york, pastor of holy family church of manhattan, fa

that bucky mentioned just a bit ago on frederick douglass, frederick douglass, profit of freedom. plenty of calls. gainesville, florida, a democrat. caller: on healing the nation. things i look at, i am a dreamer. i am a martin luther king man. high-speed rail. from the east coast to the west coast. panels from texas to california on i 10. theave in our state, defunding of our public school system. money going in that direction. the buying down of america, and we need to stop that trend. we are in this game together. david: john: are you saying there could be big projects that could bring the country back together? caller: absolutely. putting people to work, putting solar powers on i 10. refunding our public education. getting law enforcement under control. this low level bureaucrat who was accosted with a drunk on in florida over covid. it is beyond belief. that is even in florida. david: i have to applaud. 1992, bill clinton ran on many issues, one issue was major high-speed rail for this country. most of that never happened. parts of this country, particularly the midwest would

lincoln finally said -- he was thinking in illinois which it went into effect in 1853, frederick douglass called the worst black law in the state of the union, so-called negro exclusion act. if you were free african-american, you couldn't enter that or you would be fined and kicked out of the state. it was a terrible environment. certain things there but then later on during his presidency, he gained quite deep respect and affection, even in springfield he lived in a neighborhood in illinois, a neighborhood full of african-americans, being friendly to them and kept responding with several of them while in the white house and while in the white house, frederick douglass, who at first thought he was quite conservative on slavery, met him a couple times in the white house and was astounded. he came out of this thing of these is the least prejudiced white person i think i've ever met. an older african-american feminist, she came. she said before i die, i want to meet this guy, this president, abraham we can. she had a delightful time with him and felt very close to him. martin delaney, we wou

frederick douglass had thought the meeting had gone fairly well. him and the delegation left and afterward, just after they left, johnson was reported by a couple of people at the meeting to have said this about frederick douglass. those blank sons of blank thought they had me in a trap. i know that blank douglass, he's just like any other blank -- >>> we'll leave this program here to take you live to capitol hill. senator ron johnson handles the government affairs committee. this is live coverage on c-span3. >>> good morning, this hearing is called to order. i want to first thank and welcome the witnesses for your time and testimony. let me start the hearing

i went to frederick douglass high school. i went to morehouse college on a scholarship. i got an opportunity to receive the best education possible because the tax base was a great tax base. you had people who are rich. not a minority. i didn't have to get bust anywhere. i was comfortable where i was. lonelyf times, you get being the only black person in the room and the only person getting that phone call. person here today, as a who is being meant toward by some of the biggest -- best business minds, i married a very business-minded woman, and i am sitting here because the city i grew up in was started -- not the city was started, but people like john wesley dawes, people like hermann russell, people like maynard jackson understood the importance of private and public cooperation. the investment my grandparents made in 1952 and it up helping me as a kid who went to kindergarten in 1980. they had the ability to see if i invest in plans i have now, 10, 15 years down the line, it is not only going to be fruitful to me because my house goes up in equity, not just to my com

douglass was at the dedication in 1876. it showed the negro on a knees when a more manly attitude would have been indicative from freedom. even from the moment it was unveiled, it was controversial because of the subservient way in which thomas ball portrayed the -- the, umm, the, umm, the man. and here -- just in a recent "washington post" article, umm, harry jones, the assistant director of african-american civil war museum in washington said "i've never met anyone who said they liked it or were happy with it. i think it's one that people kind of wish away." you don't read much controversy about but there's plenty behind the scenes. you hear about it and whenever i show it to people who have not seen it, they're rather horrified by the image. what do we do with the statute? leave it up? do we move it? reinterpret it? what? it's a good question. now, what was the mall looking like at the end of the civil war? this. the capitol dome, the original dome, which was a lower dome, umm, ah, umm, was not adequate. once the capitol

i went to frederick douglass high school. and then, thanks to andy and jean young, i went to morehouse college on a scholarship. i got an opportunity to receive the best education possible, because the tax base was a great tax base. because you had people who were rich, to be very frank, there. i was in an education environment where i was not a minority. i didn't have to get bussed anywhere. i was comfortable where i was. soi was comfortable where i was. a lot of times, you get lonely being the only black person in the room and the only person getting that phone call. rendon since before you today not only as someone dancer, myger and goal here today, as a person who is being meant toward by some of the best business minds, i married a very business-minded woman, and i am sitting here in,use the city i grew up not the city that started, but was people like john wesley dawes, people like hermann russell, people like maynard jackson understood the importance of private and public cooperation. the investment my grandparents mad

frederick douglass kept wanting to talk about race. lincoln wanted to talk about slavery. but historians trip over this, and one of the things that you do and can do, given the kind of -- that so few people can do is place his views about race in the context of our culture. why don't you talk about that a little bit, and in particular the kind of, the significant you attribute to this. >> well, early on i mentioned earlier that he said if you kind of conservative things and almost racist things in his debate with stephen douglas. douglas was thoroughgoing racist, and frederick douglass said that stephen douglas did more harm to african-american people and just about anybody. he kept on for all these debates he kept on forcing the issue. lincoln, he was speaking in illinois which of the time had this law that went into effect in 1853 that frederick douglass called the worst black law of any state in the union. the so-called negro exclusion act which if you are free african-american you couldn't enter from within ten days or else you would be fined and kicked out of the stat

today's program, "frederick douglass, abraham lincoln and emancipation" clintonresident bill historical lecture. i would like to thank our great trustee and benefactor, bernard schwartz, for his generosity and making this event and many of our programs possible. [applause]

today's program, "frederick douglass, abraham lincoln and emancipati i

the people who admired him, frederick douglass.e at -- the people inspired by him, teddy roosevelt . all of the things that are named for humbled in this country. it was in a mosh to a man who widely of the most admired in the 20th century. he wrote over 30 books, he corresponded with over 20,000 individuals. he said he slept four hours a night. he called coffee concentrated sunbeams. he came up what was then a nature idea, that all of was interconnected. ist happened in the alps what you might see in the rocky mountains. that climate was global and not local. and where you found plants, and at what altitude, could tell you about the local ecosystem. what does this have to do with american art? spending five years traveling through south america and mexico, humboldt was on his way home and made a pit stop in cuba to assemble all of his belongings. the american consul says, you love the concept of the united states. you think american democracy could be a model for the future. you want to meet thomas jefferson, who is the president.

certainly douglass didn't. >> by personal relationships, does she mean that it is hard for a woman to protest and reform went her own husband is opposed to the cause? professor cole: i think that would be part of it. you have to have a husband who agreed and if you were a woman, you should have been able to pursue your own moral callings and that would be an example of what she is talking about about how women can't reach their own sphere until they are let go by the opec and of the household. lindsay? my question is referring to what you explained about a group that had her same beliefs would not put money into getting back slaves that escaped, so was a team or to get your slaves back that way, or just get a new one? professor cole: from the perspective of the slaveowners? >> yes. why would you pay to hunt down your old slave when it would be cheaper to get the new one? what is the big deal about getting that specific one? professor cole: capital, it depends on where you are talking about and when. by the 1850's -- >> there is no slave trade. professor cole: yes. by the 1850's, the v

and self-professed, frederick douglass has a great book on abraham lincoln.you should read it. here's the thing about what it is to be american. abe felt a certain way. he was -- over time and educating himself and his friendship with frederick douglass and being able to, here's the key word, listen, he grew and was able to finally have the courage to change the constitution. he literally gave his life for equality for all men. there has to be a journey. that's the point of schools. we need to teach the journey. caterpillar can't be a butterfly fee doesn't go through the struggle of going the chrysalis. gets out and become something new. if you open the cocoon for the butterflied still thinks it's a caterpillar and lays on a log and dies. we need to stop taking away. marinate on that. we need to learn. marinate on that. i had to work hard to find my words because these two stories upset me. >> dana: we got a history lesson, lesson intolerance, and understanding and we also got a biology lesson all in one. thank you, tyrus. merry christmas to you. >> that's wh

frederick douglass, the foremost black abolitionist in the 18 forties called the constitution a radically and essentially pro slavery document, but by the 18 fifties, douglas changed his mind, concluding the constitution, one construed in light of well established rules of legal interpretation is a glorious liberty document. as we war over america's heart and soul, many are asking what convinced douglas to changes viewpoint? some declare it was what the framers had hoped would preserve a legacy of freedom for generations to come, silence. douglas asked if the constitution were intended to be by its framers, a slave holding instrument, then why would either slavery, slave holding, nor slave be anywhere found in it? that is not the focus of those who challenged the integrity of the constitution. some who challenged the integrity of the constitution say it is weakened by the existence of slavery in the united states. at the time of the constitution was adopted. slave holders took part in the framing of the constitution, and say slave holders in their hearts intended to secure certain advanta

historians talk about the views of abraham lincoln and frederick douglass on emancipating those heldtracked both men's evolution on the issue from early in their lives to the civil war. at 10:00 eastern on reel ameri ca, we take you back in time with five archival films about vaccines and the fight against disease.

next, on the presidency, a historian talks about the views of abraham lincoln and frederick douglassemancipating those held in slavery. they track early in the career through the civil war. >> good morning, everyone. happy new year to everyone. welcome to the neurotic

of saying i am not going to discount elizabeth cady stanton mayor mayor of you know a life count douglass in fact, i think it is black women because i live at the crossroads of racism and sexism i should get the center women like me should be at the center because this coalition manages to lift me up we will all be lifted up politically. we will all be empowered politically. but my point is that story is often told either to vilify white women or to vilify black man but in both instances it is a story told that there's a kind of violence to black women as if they were not there, as if there were not their ideas. in fact, frances watkins harper faced off against both douglas and stan because she wants to speak about pilots come she wants to speak about sexual violence. she wants to speak about the specific plight of african-american women in the country and in the face of freedom and in the struggle around citizenship. she doesn't get the hearing that she might in that meeting but her ideas leave a a legacy that black women will pick up and work on and work through, we could see even until

and frederick douglass, had thought the meeting had gone fairly well, and the delegation had left.afterward, just as just after they left, johnson is reported by a couple people at the meeting, to have said this about fredericton glass. those blank sons a blank. thought they had me in a trap. i know that blank douglas. he's just like any other blank. i would sooner cut a white man's throat than not. >> pretty explicit right. >> maybe it's just a one-off, well congress voted to give african americans the right to vote in 1866. and johnson, vetoes it. and he explains, and this is his words, johnson says entirely disregarding the wishes of the people of the district of columbia, congress has deemed it right and expedient to pass the measure now submitted for my signature. therefore it becomes the duty of executive, standing between legislation of the one and one of the other, fairly expressed to determine whether he should approve the bill, and thus aid in placing upon the statue books of the nation along against which of the people to apply the solemnly and with unanimity protested o

frederick douglass had thought that we needed god fairly well. him and the delegation left. afterwards, just after they left johnson was reported by a couple of the people at the meeting who said this about frederick douglass. those blank sons of blank thought they had me in a trap! i know that michael douglas. he's just like any -- . pretty explicit. right? maybe it's just a one-off. congress voted to give african americans the right to vote in 1866. johnson vetoes it. he explains, these are entirely his words. entirely disregarding the wishes of the people of the district of columbia. congress has deemed it right and expedient to pass the measure now submitted for my signature. if therefore becomes the duty of the executive standing between the legislation of the one and the will of the other fairly expressed to determine whether he should approve the bill, and thus aid in placing upon the statute books of the nation a law against which the people to whom it is to apply have solemnly and with such unanimity protested, or whether he should return it with the objections in t

that book that you mentioned on 2018,ick douglass, coming frederick douglass: property freedom." of gainesville, florida, democrat, good morning. caller: yes, on healing the nation, i am a dreamer, i am an old man, martin luther king man, rail of the east coast to the west coast, solar panels from texas to california and i-10, we have in our state defunding of our public school system and private schools. so it's the dumbing down of america and we need to stop that trend. we are all in this game together. host: are you saying that there could be big projects in this country they could bring the country back together? caller: absolutely, absolutely. putting people to work, putting solar panels upon i-10, re funding our public education, gettoiing some of this law enforcement under control. as you know, they had this "low level bureaucrat" who was just accosted with drawn guns in florida over covid information, it is beyond belief. host: that is stephen in florida. guest: stephen, i have to applaud that, not any partisan way, but do you remember 1992, when bill clinton ran on many

a legacy enshrined in the constitution, and proclaimed in the declaration what frederick douglass calledhat glorious liberty document. on liberty that makes american history such a hopeful subject. yet for several decades, the teaching of american history has been weighed down with ideological baggage. from an academic world filled with skepticism and devoted to debunking the errors of the past, this disconcerning trend has also encouraged the popular press to depict history as a simplified morality tale where contemporary categories are applied to historical events to expose the failings of our forebearers. while the study of history does provide opportunities to learn from the past and its errors, there is something deeper, more disturbing beneath this academic orientation this prefers theory and ideology over the discovery of truth. the conscientious study of history offers rich veins of truth to explore our common humanity. are we not, after all, susceptible to the same weakne weaknesses of those we read of in the history books? certainly. we are prone to greed, anger and pride, but

these 2 specific churches have a historical context one of them was the site of project douglass funeral the other is one that has been visited by former president barack obama visited by civil rights leaders across multiple generations these are places that mean a lot to the black community to pierce who is dean of the howard university school of bin of divinity called the incidents acts of both racial terror and religious violence and when people commit these types of crimes they do it to scare black people they do it to eradicate what we've seen what is become known from the black church an organization that not only fills you with the love of jesus and christianity but is also one that tells you about leadership that tells you about social activism so when we see people attack these churches they are attacking the core of what it means to be black in america. wow. happening today the electoral college certify the results of the 2020 alexion of firming president elect joe biden and vice president elect harris but with those massive violent protests taking place over the weekend. thing

frederick douglass may have been the most photographed person of the 19th century but you don't have no film or video camera about what was going on or george floyd capture what was happening. so tell us about the study of american apartheid as an inspiration for the racial hierarchy and the dominance over the subordinates and the purity tell us about that that might surprise a lot of people. >> first and up looking at germany only because after charlottesville. the protesters themselves made the connection for the country and for the world. they were in the regalia symbols of confederacy and the nazi before our eyes. after that, realizing that episode and situation was a reminder that our history, we are not on the same page on american history. we are not. reminded us that this was about memory and the knowledge of the history. so that drew me to germany to see how was it they were dealing with their history and the memory of that history? how are they atoning for that and dealing with it? and then the more i looked into the history of nazi germany, i came to discover that they wer

to begin i would quote from the imminent frederick douglass, find out just what any people will quietly submit to, , and yu a found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them. and these will continue until they are resisted by either words or blows, or both. the limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they all press. all of the winners of the american book award this year have in one way or another refused to submit quietly. all of the winners of the award this year and one way or another have helped illuminate the path towards freedom. i would like to begin by welcoming one of the finest poets working in america today, the wonderful reginald dwayne betts who received the american book award this year for his collection, fallon. -- fallon. >> i have been writing for many and always felt that i am honored with american book awards would be one of the real heights of my career. at of course part of this is because i began reading when i was in prison. so much of what i thought to be done with the story. and so i am really humbled t

it depicted frederick douglass and abraham lincoln together and a vision was possible. [indiscernible] in an earlier period. that would be one thing. i guess the other point -- the other avenue with -- was how different abraham lincoln looked in the 1930's compared to earlier periods. -- i would say, for example, it is not like people did not respect lincoln. it is not as if he was not a central figure. celebrateded to be unifier, aonciler, person to heal the country and bring people back together again. in the 1930's, he emerged as a much more powerful figure of humanitarianism, somebody who power ofy using the the federal government to bring emancipation, address the welfare of the people. that was partly -- that was a kind of response to the way franklin roosevelt wanted to create a whole new idea of lincoln. in a way, roosevelt wanted to create his own lincoln that would prefer what roosevelt himself was doing. he wanted someone to strengthen the hand of the federal government but did so with the aim of helping the people. that is what franklin roosevelt would said

century, but we want you to see their friends, thomas jefferson, the people who admired him, frederick douglass, the people inspired by him, carl teddy rachel carson, roosevelt, john muir. all the things that were name for humboldt in this country is an active or marched to a man who was one of the most admired men of the 19th century. he wrote over 30 books. he corresponded with 20,000 individuals. he said he slept for hours a night. he called coffee concentrated sunbeams and he came up with a radical idea that all of nature was interconnected, that what happens in the alps could predict what you saw in the andes and what you might see in the rocky mountains. that climate was a global and not local. what you found plants and altitude you found them could tell you a lot about the local ecosystem. it's a concept we pretty much take for granted these days, but at the time, it was a new way to think. and humboldt spent 50 years amassing the data from around the globe that would let him put together something he called the unityf life" or of nature. what does this have to do with american art? in 1

frederick douglass had thought the meeting had gone fairly well. him and the delegation left and afterward, just after they left, johnson was reported by a couple of people at the meeting to have said this about frederick douglass. those blank sons of blank thought they had me in a trap. i know that blank douglass, he's just like any other blank -- >>> we'll leave this program here to take you live to capitol hill. senator ron johnson handles the government affairs committee. this is live coverage on c-span3. >>> good morning, this hearing is called to order. i want to first thank and welcome the witnesses for your time and testimony. let me start the hearing by saying this hearing should not be controversial. it really shouldn't be. this is something i think we all should want to restore the confidence in our election system. a week ago when i gave notice of this hearing there were more standing issues and court cases than there are today. but even though courts have handed down decisions and the electoral college has awarded joe biden 306 elector