dr. david mayers is concerned, that's great. that is a very powerful intervention. he read the op-ed in "the new york times," a reporter called him. the reporter said, so what do you think about this, and he said this just makes my job a whole lot harder. because i didn't quote those numbers for mothers to be hearing, that was what, that was talking to doctors who understand what that means as a public health initiative or a public health intervention. and his position was what he said then was even if the benefits are modest, why wouldn't we try to achieve them? so he's acknowledging that the benefits are modest and saying why wouldn't we try to achieve them. and he said this, and it's out there in the public sphere now because i read it in an article. and what he's doing when he's saying even if the benefits are modest, why wouldn't we try to achieve them, he's admitting that the benefits are modest, and he's not paying any attention at all to the high costs that are being paid by trying to achieve them, the very, very high costs that mothers are imposing on thems