dr. dr. kovach, and she advises the financial world to invest in these companies. she's saying you can get to where the provider is not getting a return on it from those using it who, by the way, dramatically are increasing their usage. so at some point the demand on that is not connected up with a payment structure. and so you could do harm to the internet going forward if we don't get it right. so, i mean, these are issues that i think we immediate to continue to look at. -- need to continue to look at. >> host: joining us in our conversation with senator greg walden is mike zapper -- zapler, reporter with "the politico." >> host: you hear the likelihood of congress actually suck succeeding in overturning these rules is practically nil, the president would never sign it. why is the committee spending so much time on this when there are these other major issues like broadband deployment, looming spectrum crunch? it has the feel of kind of an ideological pursuit instead of dealing with the serious issues. >> guest: and, mike, i know that's one of the arguments the