dr. eric gruen. he studied antiquity, studied the greeks and the romans and the syrians and the carthoggenians and all those people. he's postulating that anyone in the world today, as we look out we can see people different than ourselves and we attribute bad feelings and demonize them as he was saying. you set up 10 or 20 different constructs in this post modern world that's kind of scary but you think that there's another way to look at all of this stuff. it's not us and them. >> well, the -- what got me going. as you said i'm ant ancient his -- an ancient historian. but what got me going is that the ancients are now getting the blame for all of this. there's a book that was published three or four years ago called worlds at war, the 2500 year struggle between east and west. 2500 years ranges back to the fifth century bce which refers to the conflict of the greeks and the persians and that this book traces all of our ethnic conflicts to antiquity and now the ancients have something to answer for.