dr. scott gottlieb and authur of beating obama care, betty. are these stories add made up? >> no.ot of dislocations in the market where people are finding they thought they were insured and they're not. or they got insurance throuobam and they can't get to the doctors they need to. >> let's take a listen to something else that harry reid said. >> for years jean was locked into her job as a schoolteacher because she, brett and their two teenage children needed guaranteed health insurance. it cost a lot. but jane was able to quit her teaching job, spend more time with her children and help her husband at the family small business. jane says the affordable care act has literally changed her life and the lives of her loved ones. >> all right. betsy, without getting into whether being locked down in teaching is a bad thing, is this administration against work? >> they seem to be against work but they're certainly not for the truth. and i want to underscore the point he made before about liars. the people he are calling liars are people with preexisting conditions, the very people that

dr. scott gottlieb, resident fellow at the american enterprise institute. dr. scott, welcome back to the show. >> thanks. gerri: another delay. i have to admit at this point, i don't know what is left of obamacare, we delayed so many things. is this a knife in the heart to the law? >> there is more they can delay. what they're doing here they will allow small business that is were supposed to conform to the mandates under the law get grandfathered in another year or two. the small businesses can continue to offer policies they're offering currently. under the current law they would have to stop offering the policies this fall just before the election. that is why the administration is taking this move. what will happen it, will cause premiums in the obamacare exchanges to go up next year more because the insurance companies were counting on these small businesses moving those individuals into the obamacare exchanges. gerri: well, i have to tell you, yet another delay, and it seems to me it is pretty obvious the reason why they're doing this there is election co

dr. gottlieb. both of you have it help me., the way i read it, and i read it through the "wall street journal" editorial and other commentaries. basically if you get canceled, you never have to renew if you can prove that the renewal will be more expensive than obamacare. and there is a weird clause that says if anybody, anybody, can't find something that is less expensive, they can get out, too. is that true? >> well, look, i think they left it very ambiguous. they do not want to send the signal while enrollment season is still open that they will exempt everybody from the individual mandate. but you're right, they wrote that provision to be purposely vague so they could potentially be read later to exempt many more people. obviously it was aimed first and foremost at the people that got canceled policies in 2013. and they're saying to them you're definitely off the hook for the mandate in 2014. and now in 2015 and '16, if you want to get out from under it. i think the real issue is fairness. how do you justify exempting peop

dr. scott gottlieb, american enterprise institute. i have to tell you brand spanking new numbers before the show. health and human services announcing they have signed up five million people, total, state and federal exchanges for obamacare. their goal is 7 million people. what do you make of the number? >> that will fall short of what the goal is. we know 20% of those people haven't paid their first installment, vent paid their first premium. so you have to take that down by 20%. i think they will get to four or five million enrollees in obama care. they're not counting exchange enrollment. people go directly to insurance companies to sign up. that will probably offset number they lose, attrition, people that drop out because they don't pay premium. they will end up at five million. gerri: still short of the goal they set for themselves, dr. scott. the more numbers and polling on obamacare frankly the more surprised i am. we're finding out from bankrate.com, the number of uninsured americans, fully a third say they have no intention

dr. scott gottlieb and betsy mccoy, author of the book "beating obamacare."tory, the profit margin story, what's going on here? >> well, last friday night after the close of business in a sneaky and illegal move, the obama administration changed the rules regarding a bailout that actually was in this law, larry, section 1342. but most politicians didn't know about it until a few weeks ago. but it's a double deception. we'll bail you out at the end of the year. right? it will make the plans look successful. it will make it look like we're providing affordable health care even though we are not. second deception, they said it was revenue neutral meaning it wouldn't cost the taxpayers anything but just a couple of weeks ago, kathleen sebelius said no one had even tried to calculate the cost of this bailout. >> so scott, the profit margins -- i hate this whole conversation because i hate the government talking about profit margins. but they have been raised and the revenue flow has been raised. you can have 20 to 22% they've raised those caps. that is a form of a