dr. hooker: no, i have not. ms. flanz: know. -- dr. head: no. dr. hooker: what the training is -- it is not a specific training. there are five steps agencies have to take and one of them -- a lot of it is the training component, putting posters that facility and providing information to new employees about retaliation, providing information to current employees. >> their confusion on that in the v.a.? that if someone tells you about a practice, isn't it widely known that you don't move them from their office without due process? yes, facetiously but do you believe this is going to work? >> the problem is that it has to filter down. the message is good coming out of headquarters those folks for implementing it. >> is this going to work, dr. head? >> i think the current practices made a big change. >> i would venture to say -- i always think about this is -- training folks is not technique and content. i would argue the a's issue is people -- argue v.a.'s issue is people. there are a whole bunch of dedicated v.a. employees that are living at sacrifici

dr. hooker. i just can't tell you how much i appreciate your courage and your willingness to help us help get this right. >> thank you representative. i think that you know, your passion speaks for itself. i think when i mentioned about being on the right team, i mean there is no question that, you know, our representative has been an advocate for veterans that we haven't seen the likes of. so thank you so much for that, ma'am. >> miss custer. >> thank you very much. a brief follow-up along the lines of representative rice. and i want to ask miss lerner, this is sort of procedural but i think it will get at an important point. you talked about the office of medical inspector now doing a more proactive or interactive follow-up to the recommendations. and you mentioned including disciplinary action and that seems to be what is hanging in the room over this hearing, our disappointment that it sounds as though it is a more rigorous investigation of the whistle-blowers than of those that have been sta

dr. hooker: the office of special counsel has communicated with us. rep. benishek: did the office of accountability review talk with you? dr. head: they have but it has been disappointing. rep. benishek: mr. tresmaine, i heard you testify you made contact with ms. lerner's department, is there anybody else you have talked to? mr. tresmaine: no, sir other than the aib after about six -- i want to say 12 or 13 hours of grilling over 2 days -- i am sorry, three days. rep. benishek: they were talking to you. mr. tresmaine: they were not talking, they were grilling. they were investigating. and i told them -- i clearly thought it was a sham and i expressed it on numerous occasions during the investigation. one of the most interesting questions, the questions they wanted asked or answered the most dealt with the fact that i identified a vehicle that was driving on a friday night at 8: 30 in the evening did not have any tell lights on it at all. i stopped in the vehicle and notify the driver there were not any tell lies before they got on a dark highway. and then

dr. hooker. mr. tremaine, you now have five minutes. >> thank you, chairman coffman, committee members, and our representative robie. i'm here with you today to testify about the unacceptable, vicious, and retaliation against sheila use and myself at the health care center where the director james dalton became the first senior executive service member in history fired for neglect of duty. the chief of staff also under investigation was on paid leave for six months and quietly retired in december 2014. with disingenuous claims of improvement, there remains an atmosphere of exclusion and retaliation against those who did not support dalton or subsequently the dangerously inexperienced leadership and ineffectual management of mr. robin jackson, the deputy network director over dalton during his tenure and who was immediately planted as interim director by charles sepich, the visiting director. dr. mousse and i were two seasoned and experienced yet idealistic newcomers to the leadership team in march of

dr. hooker. mr.tremaine, you now have five minutes. >> thank you, chairman coffman, committee members and our representative robie. i'm here with you today to testify about the unacceptable, vicious, and retaliation against sheila use and myself at the health care center where the director james dalton became the first senior executive service member in history fired for neglect of duty. the chief of staff also under investigation was on paid leave for six months and quietly retired in december 2014. with disingenuous claims of improvement, there remains an atmosphere of exclusion and retaliation against those who did not support dalton or subsequently the dangerously inexperienced leadership and ineffectual management of mr. robin jackson, the deputy network director over dalton during his tenure and who was immediately planted as interim director by charles sepich, the visiting director. dr. mousse and i were two seasoned and experienced yet idealistic newcomers to the leadership team in march of 2

dr. hooker and mr. tremaine don't have the actual physical stitches, they are surely bearing the figurative ones. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, miss rice. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i'm still trying to figure out parts of the testimony. i am looking at a document from november 2014. rebuilding trust from the va secretary. at that time you did note there were over 100 investigations currently being undertaken. do you have a rough figure of what those numbers are today? >> i believe he was speaking to the i.g.'s ongoing investigations into alleged misuse of scheduling and wait list systems. the ig was at its most active point, active at 98 sites. they have completed their work at several of them. just to make sure i have the right data here -- they've completed their work at 43 of those sites. they have substantiated some scheduling and propriety at 14 of the 43. they found no particular impropriety at 29, and their investigations are ongoing at the balance. >> so that's at the 100 from november

dr. hooker: none. dr. head: none. rep. coffman: ms.rner, if you look at the number of cases from the v.a. that have gone before the usc compared to other agencies of the federal government, it seems substantially higher. a civil comparison would be to the department of defense. i believe it is -- the number of civil servant employees and yet there are more cases. last year, that came forward from that of armor of veteran affairs that the department of defense. can you explain just the nature of the volume of cases from the v.a.? ms. lerner: we do get more retaliation claims is -- cases that any other federal agency and other department. the numbers are increasing. just for comparison, the complaints we get from the v.a. are higher than the dod which has doubled the number of employees. so we know that people come forward when they feel that they have to to protect the life of a veterans or the health and safety and so the fact that people are coming forward is a very positive sign. while the numbers are bad and are increasing, i person

dr. hooker and dr. tremaine, have any of you received osc whistleblower certification training? have not. >> i have not. >> no. >> don't you wish those three would have got it? >> can i speak to that? >> yes i think what the certification training is it's not a specific training. there are five steps that agencies have to take to become certified. one of them is -- i mean a lot of it is a training component. but it means putting posters at facilities. providing information to employers about retaliation and their rights. providing information to current employees. >> is there any confusion on that? >> i'm sorry. >> is there confusion on that in the v.a. that if someone tells you about a practice, isn't it widely known that you don't move them from their office without due process or anything? and again, yes, facetiously, but i'm fit to be tired here. do you believe this is going to work? >> you noknow, i think the problem is that it has to filter down to the regions. i think the message is good coming down to headquarters. but the folk who is are inchactually implementing it nee

dr. marilyn hooker m.d. neurologist and president a. f.g. and mr. richard truemain. >> v.a. exists to serve veterans. that service takes place through interactions between veterans and frontline v.a employees. doctors and nurses, claims processers and cemetery workers and countsless others upon whom v.a. depends to serve veterans with the dignity compassion and dedication they deserve. we depend on the same employees to have the moral courage by helping to make our processes and policies together. >> the department's responsibility to protect whistle blowers is an integral part of our objectsation to provide safe, high quality healthcare and other benefits to veterans in legally compliant and fiscally responsible ways. it is important to keep in mind that the underlying purpose of the whistle blower protection rules is to encourage candid disclosure of information. so problems can be identified and corrected. v.aplt is fully committed to correcting problems and ensuring fair treatment for employees who bring problems to light. secretary mcdonald talks frequently about his vi