that same vain of jackie robinson and dr.that same esteem? >> i hold them much higher than i do. not only because of what they stood for, but what they stood for to bring to the civil rights table for other blacks to chew on and ride on, you know. >> what is the state of baseball these days? how is it doing today? is it's polarity waning at all? >> it could be better, it could be a lot better. we don't have as many african-americans playing baseball now as we used to v any time we have an economic struggle in this country, we, and i mean we, the blacks are going to feel the pinch a lot quicker than anybody. and baseball is a very expensive game. >> kids can turn on tv and they can see that immediate -- that instant fame or whatnot from basketball, with football. >> i just don't believe baseball has sold itself as much in the black area as it should have, you know, really. i think that somehow, i think football has done a terrific job and i think basketball has done another terrific job of selling its sports in the areas. you