dr. mary francis barry founder of the free south africa movement and michael sculnic. thanks to you both for joining me. it's great to have you here. >> thanks for having me. >> dr. barry, i want to start with you because i was reading a snippet from an interview you gave where you were talking about literally the day that president mandela was released and you met -- saw him and met him in capetown. can you tell us about that? >> right. i had gone to capetown with others who had been in the free south africa movement, and we persuaded the government that if we got there and we saw that the sanctions had improved things we might have a press conference and make them feel better and we fooled them. we got there and once we got there, we raised hell all over the country and demanded that nelson -- we see nelson and that nelson be released. one night we were in a hotel in capetown and the press followed us everywhere. it was big news all over the country. we were in the hotel and the message came from the ministry that you don't have to keep raising hell all around here. w