dr. king who chose to combat lbj on vietnam. it will be fascinating to watch people say, i have principle, and conviction. i'm voting for this guy. in "the new york times" this morning. rick perry, saying it would be better for republicans to lose than to win with donald trump at the head of the ticket. >> it's conscience. >> you know, this -- everybody is talking about the 1860 convention as the metaphor. i think it looks more like 1912 or 1964. where a lot of republicans who are on the conservative side roosevelt's third party candidacy fail and get clobbered in the election to live to fight another day. in 1964, what is odd here, the party has moved so far to the right in '64, what you have now is moderate conservatives or actually pretty conservative conservatives, ted cruz is no moderate, saying donald trump is too extreme for the republican party. there is principle here. but there are multiple principles at stake. some don't back trump because he's conservative. some oppose trump because of the outlandish things he says. >> if donald trump gets the nomination, can you support him? >> we're not there yet. we'll have to wait and see and take a cold-eyed look at it. it woul