dr. samuels, he had heart surgery five years ago, explain why the post heart surgery period could lead toome serious depression? >> well, you know, at his age, as we get older, we become much more vulnerable and emotionally unstable because of the serious illness like that, having open heart surgery is a huge very depressing thing to come through, if you pour alcohol on to that, you have to know, alcohol is a depressant and you throw the chemical imbalance into that, that he was obviously struggling with. you have an extremely dangerous combination. >> i said it was his wife who mentioned he had been suffering from depression, it was actually his spokesperson. but the stigma of mental health problems, there are many people who are embarrassed to acknowledge they're struggling with this kind of depression, reluctant to seek treatment. why does that stigma persist so much in our culture? >> well, i got to -- it's confusing. i mean, it's in the same way that people don't want to tell that they're an alcoholic or drug addict. i'm 29 years clean and sober, i'm out of the closet, i want to talk