southall, dr. n all -- southall, i think you're talking about the different ways of jiggering our, the students who are not athletes actually doing a better job academically than those who aren't. it was said by the head of the ncaa that that was true, and it was also in his testimony. i don't believe that. i just don't believe it. now, i may be wrong, but this -- and then the different formulas you use. it was very interesting to me and something i'd like to know more about. but to me, it's been, in essence, an important hearing but not one which points to progress. and, because i think everybody's going to leave this hearing, they're going to go right back. i'm not. i don't think senator booker is, and i don't think a bunch of others are, go back to doing what they do. but we got that one out of the way. nothing, no harm there, nobody did themselves any great damage. congress doesn't usually follow through. congress doesn't get that much done. that happens to be true for the last three or four yea

dr. richard southall who is a director of the college sports institute. welcome. >> chairman rockefeller, senator thune, and committee members thank you for allowing me to talk. my initial draft was only 35 minutes so thank you for giving me the advice. as director of the college of sports institute at the university of north carolina my comments are not off the cuff but informed by organizational theories and studies and drawn from ncaa documents and reflect my work but that of numerous colleagues and scholars. well i will aware there is sociodemographic differences my testimony will focus on how within big-time college sports ncaa members have sought to protect their business interest at the expense and well-being academic success and profits of athletes. for several decades the ncaa was aware as the scale of spending continued to grow there was a general sense that big-time athletics is in conflict with amateurs and scrutiny is likely if graduation rates don't improve. in 2003, the ncaa embarked on a two-face rebranding schedule. first the ncaa created

dr. southall i think that you're talking about the different ways of jiggering the students who are not athletes, actually doing the better job academically. than those who respect to. it was said by the head of the ncaa that that was true and it was in his testimony. i don't believe that. i just don't believe it. now, i may be wrong but -- and then the different formulas you use. it was very interesting to me and something lied ike to know more about. to me it's been in essence, an important hearing but not one that points to progress. and because i think everybody is going to leave this hearing and they're going to go right back. i'm not. i don't think senator booker is and i don't think a bunch of others are. go back to doing what they do. we got that one out of the way. nothing -- no harm there. nosh did themselves any great damage. nobody did themselves any great damage. congress doesn't usually follow through. congress doesn't get that much done. that happens to be true the last three or four years and then there's always the question of getting people from, you know, either trustees or he