. >> dr. sr. will be at the bookstore between 1400 and 1602 sign books are chad about in the other things that may be on your mind. thank you. >> host: rear west virginia university talking with ken -- daniel shapiro talking about his book "is the welfare state justified?" let's start at the end. is it? >> guest: probably not. but i should explain a little by what i mean by that. first, by the welfare state, i mean programs like national health insurance, social security, and government welfare. when i say probably not which side do in the book, i look at the values and principles of people who defend the welfare state. the reasons they give. i am in philosophy so there are various positions that support it. to skip technical terms i say barren is, provide a sense of community or protect the poor. given their values if you compare those institutions with feasible more market based alternatives people supporting the welfare state should support the alternative is coming out looking better or at lea