i believe it's time for -- dr. zhangbeen before us several times. >> commissioner, president, chairman, i'd like to make a statement that dr. zhang's powerpoint will be available on-line monday. we will also have hard copies available for the public at the commission office. >> thank you, secretary. i believe there was another powerpoint here that wasn't made available to the commission, too, is that -- or will you make that announcement later? >> i believe that was -- that was available. i do believe it was in the packet. >> yeah. >> no -- the -- okay. all right. thank you. >> but they are on-line, and if members of public would like copies, we can provide them at the commission office. >> yeah. thank you. >> good evening, doctor, welcome back. >> thank you. >> thank you again for joining us. >> thank you. sorry for the delay here. so i wanted to use my ten minutes here today to review the real world evidence and what can we learn from previous experiences if we might apply it if we were to bring tazers to san francisco

i have to -- dr. zhang. i was looking at the tazer -- were you there when the tazer -- when the tazer put their powerpoint up. so one of their -- if i'm looking at this right, one of their scenario was to use tazer on someone having mental illness, in your study, what did you find in terms of using tazers on those suffering from mental illness, drug or alcohol. >> well, i have to stay that the study contains over half a million arrests, so we weren't able to look individually at each incident, however, it's a real world study, so it did include folks with mental illness and people with existing medical conditions and aggregate, we found the increase in sudden deaths. >> and actually, it was saying basically to ignore their warnings, just go ahead and use it if you have to use it, but i'm concerned because their warnings actually say to avoid using it on people with mental health illness, alcohol or drug effects. >> i would agree with that, yes. >> thank you. >> dr. zhang, can i ask you one other question. we

dr. zhang. >> yes, sir. >> your study's been cited over and over again, and i understand the qualitative difference between your your study, quantitative and others. let me ask you a question. what's your response when you hear a person say i'd rather be tased than shot with a gun? >> i think it's obvious that it is a tazer is less lethal than a gun, but the situations in which a gun would be used versus a tazer are completely separate. one would not be asking to use a tazer in a situation where there's lethal force, as far as i understand it. therefore, if you're using the tazer in a situation where there's not lethal threat, then, you're taking all of the risk of sudden death without any -- with less benefit, so, you know, acknowledging that it's less lethal, but it's not nonlethal, you're taking all of the risk in a nonlethal situation. >> right. and you standby your study's finding. >> right, and i'll highlight a few points. one, it was peer reviewed, which means that it was reviewed by doc

. >> are you speaking for dr. zhang? >> i asked him if i could speak. >> you can come back during public comment. >> well, he's being setup. >> you can come back during public comment. thank you. >> thank you. >> i'm sorry about the presentation updates not having updated, but i'll just go by my previous slides as a guide, but i did want to highlight that -- some of the critiques of our previous studies. so what can we learn from real world experiences? i think in medicine, we -- the gold standard for bringing in intervention for a drug to the public is a controlled human clinical trial, and that wouldn't be ethical with a tazer because it's difficult to replicate the real world situations, so in lieu of that, we can perform epidemilogical studies in terms of real world use, does it result in increased sudden death? does it result in fewer officer injuries or fewer suspect injuries, and our study in 2009 look looked at that by looking at 500,000 arrests. we did find an initial spike in sudden death after the first year.