estimates of the dresden dead rargee range from 35,000 to 250,000. but he was a great strategist we're told. the greatest debackible of world were was costing 40 million british -- and winston churchill, the greatest british debackible was norway when the invading marines arrived 24 hours after german troops had landed and occupied the more wiegen ports. and architect of the disaster, first lord of the admirality, winston churchill. within historian suggested that the norway operation was blown by churchill himself, blabbing his plans to press at attach shays that was picked up by german intelligence. that historian, a mr. andrew roberts. one of churchill's statesmen. and britain demanded, and agreed to strap hundreds of ships and severe a 20-year alliance with japan that had been faithful. and churchill urged cap pit lation to americans. and japan began dismantling the greatest navy in the world. and british historian called for cap pit lation to america's demands at churchill's insistence, one of the major catastrophes of english history. fine year

it does not justify the bombing of hamburg or dresden or anything like that. they would not have had to withdraw the bulk of the fighting units from the eastern front to defend the right. that allowed the major breakthroughs of the eastern front. as was pointed out, the creation of the bombing force was almost a monster. once it had been created, it is very hard to stop it, and that is one of the terrible effects of the industrial and the manpower investment which had been made in bomber command, and why it was so difficult to stop it toward the end. there, churchill was certainly at all. -- churchill was certainly at fault. he should have reined in harris well before, and he certainly should have stopped those bombings in 1945. the bombing of dresden was deliberately and directly requested by the red army to prevent the transfer divisions from the western front to the eastern front. it was the western blood guilt regarding the soviet union. >> it could have been diverted just as much if the attacks had gone as the americans suggested, against pinpoint targets

at dresden's station, thetrains had fiveays of rioting. dozens of people wanted to get on board. they erued with furious wn they got back. police were stopd. >> it is not possible. >> people to noto that. >> neverefore. >the people cried. e are the peoe. it is our count. weust have the gernment of th cuntry, not the old man in berlin. >>hey took the governme for themselvesecause of this. >> a local communist leader was a reformer. he gotiated with the protesters while the communist leaderip stayed frozen within decision. > beten the lders, there was tmosphere of mistrus no one would tal to anybody lse. little groups started to form. there was no agreement. n this situation, nobody was talking. no decisions could be reacd. no agreements on the reform that were needed >> tha brought to t surface all of the despair felt by ea germans. with this one spectacula miscalcution, the communist unleashed what they were ied to suppress. it created a popular opposition which spread until it ew away the rlin wa and then the enre country. >> keeler is ing treated in the hospital fr a minor stro

at dresden's station, the trains had five days of rioting. dozens of people wanted to get on board. they erupted with furious when they got back. police were stopped. >> it is not possible. >> people to not do that. >> never before. >> the people cried. we are the people. it is our country. we must have the government of this country, not the old man in berlin. >> they took the government for themselves because of this. >> a local communist leader was a reformer. he negotiated with the protesters while the communist leadership stayed frozen within decision. >> between the leaders, there was an atmosphere of mistrust. no one would talk to anybody else. little groups started to form. there was no agreement. in this situation, nobody was talking. no decisions could be reached. no agreements on the reforms that were needed. >> that brought to the surface all of the despair felt by east germans. with this one spectacular miscalculation, the communist unleashed what they were tried to suppress. it created a popular opposition which spread until it blew away the berlin wall and then the en

the climax came in 1945 with thunderclap, the firebombing of dresden, a defenseless city of a defeated nation, packed with refugees fleeing the serial rapists of the red army. estimates of the dressed in dead range from 35,000 to 250,000. but he was a great war strategist, we were told. gallipoli was an ill-conceived drive the cost 250,000 troops. the first board of the admiralty, winston churchill. the greatest british debacle of world war ii was norway and the marines arrive 24 hours after german troops had landed and occupied all the major ports from oslo -- 1 british historian suggest that the norway operation was run by churchill himself bletting his plans to national press at a chaise which was then picked up by german intelligence. that historian was mr. andrew roberts. what a church elder statesman? in 1921, the americans arrogantly demanded the come to washington for enable conference. churchill urged capitulation to the americans and britain capitulated, terminated their japanese treated, and began dismantling the greatest navy in the world. it was called one of the greatest

when you have eric hole dresden, his science advisor, who supports -- spoke out in defense of compulsory abortion and sterilization. when you have a state department lawyer haroldco who says the u.s. should follow law. the man who wants to give rights to pets and ban hunting. this is not one manages stake here. what does this tell you about this president. is he presenting a more moderate face to the american people but this reality is he a radical himself? >> i think that's more the script right there, sean. i think there is this moderate picture and tomorrow night in the speech you are going to hear a very moderate speech with very conservative undertones to it to try to continue that image. the problem is the president himself said judge me by the people i surround myself with. and if this is the standard, then you are explaining a lot by not saying anything. it's reflected in the writings, in the words and utterances of the very individuals you brought into your cabinet. into your inner circle in the west wing as czars. and so. sean: go ahead, finish. >> no, i was going to say. so my

leningrad, dresden -- we poles remember a city particularly.e also remember the words which were the symbolic beginning of this most tragic of course, at all peddler on the 22nd of august in a meeting with his generals -- adolf hitler on the 22nd of august said something that was the essence of a nightmare. he said, if you are a winner, no one wall shut down from the lies that you said. he said that only the strong are right. in the order that we wish to build together, there is no room for this. we want to continue building in europe and the world the order where it is not the strong that is right but the one that is right is right. it is not the winner that says what is in the interests of everybody, asserting it. if we want to build the order of security, we have to resist the temptation of the domination of the strong over the week. -- weak. there are the principles founded of the united europe. i want to say that there would be no point in organizing in this. our common belief. in order to access the history and the temptations. we are hil

laura: i think if you and civil rights lawyers like you went back to dresden, you would want to prosecutee actions that we took in world war it 2. i think a loot of things happen in war that are unsavory that are very difficult for the civilian population to understand and frankly stomach. and is it pretty? no, it's not. i'm much more worried about the safety and security of this country. if we lose that, this whole debate that we are having, this is going to be seeming very academic to people. >> if a country doesn't have principles. laura: you don't think this country has principles because we waterboarded three or or four people. >> we come very close to tarnishing our image around the world. we used to be the democratic leader now we are looked at with scorn. laura: president obama is the president of the united states we can't get scotland not to release lockerbie bomber. soft power and the world was supposed to love us. the world is not giving us anything in afghanistan more than they were when bush was president and we have seen what's happening with iran and north korea. the world