what about the cloud ipos from the past zoom video, dyna trace, paysure dut that, frezia and looked at 32 and zoom individuvchltd idia best, dynatrace failed last year everything else must go. which brings us to the second screen valuation. again, we want to keep this simple i'm failing anything that trades at more than 10 times sales unless we can come up with a good excuse. ten times sale very expensive. looking at the cloud kings, adobe and service now have ten times next year's sales -- boy, i tell you, i don't know if you saw it, we saw big moves at these but service now had the biggest. you know what, not cheap i'm willing to give adobe a pass, it's so profitable and that's fine by me. i like service now but no extenuating circumstances, trades at 61 times earnings. twilio is borderline but given its rule of 40 score, i say we let it stay in this group. as for the cloud princes of the renaming names, cooper software both traded at well more than 15 times sales and leaves hubspot passing both tests, wow. how about the cloud commoners. only a5 five9, ringcentral and zendesk traded