e. jean carroll, he did not show up for. >> that's right. e. rroll similarly got a judge to rule it such overwhelming evidence, there is no need to try the merits of the case. donald trump is a rapist. that has been established by another judge. he already owes $5 million to e. jean carroll and now there's a second defamation case she has brought. there will be a trial only to determine how much money he owes. in this trial, before judge engoron, donald has had all of his business licenses revoked. at least 500 trump legal entities, mostly limited liability companies, no longer have business licenses. you cannot do business without a business license. the judge has appointed another judge, a retired judge, as a monitor to make sure trump and his sons and the two executives who are in the case don't abscond with any of the money until it is determine how much is there. ultimately, we will see the trump organization, his umbrella group, turnover to a receiver. this is similar to bankruptcy when you dissolve a company but it is under new york state

e. jean carroll case isn't in e. arroll's hands, it but you have to secure your willingness to pay the appeal bond before you are permitted it to move forward. that is, i think, a partial step towards justice and these cases. >> i want to move on to georgia. because the new york times points out, even though trump will not be in the first trial this fall, he's going to looming large. because that's how racketerring cases work. can you explain to us, joyce? >> sure. this case that's going to trial at the end of the month will only involve two defendants, kenneth chesbrough and sidney powell. the government still has to prove the entire conspiracy to engage in rico and the other charges that are made records to these defendants. so we will see, this will really be fani willis teeing up the same case that she'll bring against donald trump. she will have to prove that agreement was made among defendants to achieve that rico outcomes that would engage in this sort of effort to interfere with the election on multiple fronts

e. jean carroll really mopped the floor with him, figuratively speaking. d what does donald trump do after he loses the case brought against him by e. jean carroll? he goes out and lies, defames her. again, for which he will, again, likely build accountable. it's really hard to fathom how his lawyers would say, you know, go ahead and testify, mr. trump. he will only dig his own legal hole deeper and deeper. >> glenn, let's go down the road a little bit from here in florida. let's go to fort pierce for judge aileen cannon presides in the court, the federal courthouse up there. october 12th, in between those two depots, unitas talked about, gonna be a garcia hearing, to garcia hearings in the mar-a-lago classified documents case. it doesn't involve trump and his lawyers. it involves his codefendants, -- and their lawyers. why should donald trump be nervous if there does end up being a finding that there's a conflict of interest where those two codefendants get new lawyers? >> because anytime that a witness who has incriminating information about donald trump

e. jean carroll.did not also show up when allen weisselberg was facing his trial over fraud. >> yeah. >> what is different than here? >> that's a great question. first of all, important that people understand. this is a civil case. you do have the option as a defendant in a civil case to show up or not show up. when his criminal cases get tried, separate cases, he will not have that option. he has to physically be in those courtrooms. as for here what's different as between the e. jean carroll and this one, that has to be a political consideration because the legal considerations are really the same. we will see how long he lasts. that's a long day in court, it can get draining and this is going to be several weeks of trial. it may be that he's there as some show appearance, be there for a day or two or part of the day, but we'll see. >> jessica, this case isn't if donald trump and his sons committed fraud, the judge has already very pointedly said that. so what is at stake here? is it about damages t

e. jean carroll. the damages go up.he amount, i think the total is around 2.2 billion over the statement. you have to recoup that money. somehow. i think that the damages are going to be quite high. given that he does not really own all of the property that he says he owns, he has licensing rights, management fees coming from it. it could be the total dissolution of everything the trump -- and you didn't mention, but chicago has a trump tower as well. it's a very big i saw her. everyone is hoping that that will come down as well. it is one of the defendants. >> jill wine-banks, as always, it's so great to see you. thank you so much for taking this time. coming, up i will speak with author and historian ruth ben-ghiat after biden's new warning about extremist republicans. it's a new war of the the speakers, beginning this week. the pending fight for speaker mccarthy and matt gaetz needs democracy. that's next. that's next. (vo) the new iphone 15 pro with titanium is here. get it on us, with verizon's best business unlimi

e. jean carroll.trump claims his comments about the writer in 2019 were covered by presidential immuniti. the defamation trail is set for january. earlier he was found guilty of sexually assaulting her in the 1990s. >>> on his truth social platform, trump wrote that sidney powell was never his attorney. it comes after powell pleaded guilty to six misdemeanor charges last week in the georgia election interference case. now in 2020, trump publicly announced that he had added powell to his legal team. she has agreed to testify against her co-defendants in the case. trump has pleaded not guilty. >>> and a colorado judge blocked trump's attempts to shut down a lawsuit seeking to keep him off the 2024 presidential ballot in the state. a liberal watchdog group filed the suit citing the 14th amendment's insurrection ban. it says u.s. officials who have taken an oath to uphold the constitution are disqualified from future office if they engage in insurrection or help insurrectionists. the case is set for trial

e. jean carroll's attorney that e. roll wasn't his type and that the attorney, that he was speaking to, wasn't his type either and snarled at her. i thought that was a special touch. >> that is also where he -- >> special touch. >> said throughout history -- people like him were able to do whatever he want fod do. >> it's just the truth. if you need to know anything about donald trump, it's important to watch that deposition. so andrew, couple of things. number one, you pointed out that it's already been concluded that a receiver has to be put in place. i want to understand what that means for donald trump's businesses right now. how does that actually work? how does that impact his actual business with other people? do people still want to do business with him if his company is in this situation. things like that. and then also if you could touch on the separate -- the federal case, election interference, jack smith, asking for a gag order. what does that mean? will it happen? >> sure. just one thing to note, if donald

e. jean carroll, remember that? but this trial, one that could spell the end of this trump's, next one about his wealth and mind you a quarter of a billion -- yes, with a, be a quarter of a billion bucks, and believe he was in that courtroom. was it the campaign trail that he was? on maybe a little bit of both. this to me send it a whole lot like what was going on at the courthouse was another stop on the campaign trail. lisa side. >> this is politics. now it has been very successful because they took me off the campaign trail, i've been sitting in the courthouse all day long. so being in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, or a lot of other places that i could be at. >> he did choose to be there all day. along the better gun was today and there was no -- in the first place. and there's no guarantee that he will actually be there over the next day or maybe even 2 to 3 months if the judge expects the with or without him inside of that courtroom. we heard from a new york attorney general today letitia james insisting

e. jean carroll. remember that? but this trial, one that could spell maybe the end of the trump business in new york, the one about his wealth and mind you, a quarter of a billion, yes, with a b, a quarter of a billion bucks, you better believe he was in that courtroom or was it the campaign trail that he was on? maybe a little bit of both because after all, this to me sounded a whole lot like what was going on at the courthouse was another stop on the campaign trail, at least outside. >> business for politics, now it's been very successful for them because they took me off the campaign trail because i've been sitting in a courthouse all day long instead of being in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina or a lot of other places i could be at. >> well, he did choose to be there all day long. there's no requirement to be there in the first place. there's no guarantee he'll actually be there over the next day or week or maybe even two to three months that the judge expects this takes to take. we heard from the attorney g

e. jean carroll. guilty of fraud, g sharing the nation secrets not only in the mar-a-lago indictment. there was a report from abc news he shared w information about ouasr nuclears submarintee capacities with an australian billionaire who is a member onuf mar-a-lago and shard that with dozens of other people, they are making aot purchase of three subs, how many nuclear war heads they carry and how close they can get to w russian subs without being detected. then i told, he is shooting up in the polls. when you see the interviews of trump supporters out of rallies, none of this is true, it's the big o lie, hute won the election. you wouldn't say to me, you guys are in a cult? it's actually painta what hillary clinton ills sayin. >> no one on the republican party side has called for the silencing of newspapers and social media. >> fake news. aper>> excuse me, i'm asking je. question. no one said do not let anyone talk about hunter's laptop. make sure that the conservatives get suppressed onc onsocial media. i mean, this ism consistent with thede whole idea of silencing americans if they

e. jean carroll brought. as someone who co-authored a book with him, what does that tell you about what is most important to him? >> donald trump's sense of value comes entirely from his net worth. so his survival, his emotional survival depends on looking outside himself to define his internal value, which he feels none of. he feels worthless. so when you take him, when you accuse him of having less money than he is falsely claimed he has, he feels deeply diminished. and it's one of the reasons why at that event yesterday you saw him looking so actively agitated. most of the time when he is accused of stuff, he doesn't look that visibly agitated. he did yesterday. i know it's because he felt small. >> does he really -- i think that thing i have always tried to figure out, having read a lot of depositions, particularly in 2016 trying to figure out how his business world operated, he was always inflating and lying and talking about numbers that simply had no basis in reality. why is he offended about being cal

e. jean carroll for sexual assault and defamation and frankly e. roll and her lawyers mopped the floor with donald trump and his lawyers. he didn't appear for a single solitary minute. i guess that case wasn't all that important to him. that case wasn't all that important to him. my goodness. >> someone's calling glenn. we're going to wait through that. go ahead. >> i wish i was not e-incompetent. i wish i knew how to work a -- >> go ahead, pick up. >> my apologies. so apparently, this is important to him. just as donny said, this is all about his image. right? his wealth. his prestige. i think that's why he's there fuming. and you know, it's interesting that he will spend all day shooting these nasty glares at the witnesses and grumbling under his breath and then he walks out into the hallway and tells what i call his hallway lies about what's actually going on in the courtroom. but i for one -- i wish cameras were going to be in the courtroom because i really look forward to seeing whether he again pleads the fifth or whether he does really the on

e. jean carroll. he himself destroyed -- he destroyed his own case by testifying.e truth is because it has been stretched and pulled and twisted so many different ways. he truly doesn't remember what he's talking about. and so there's a big difference when you're pulling the wool over your maga supporters, when you're acting this way to the press. it's very different than when you're on the stand and you have taken the oath to tell the truth the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> michael, it's not just donald trump who is at trial here. eric trump and don trump jr., these are defendants. multiple defendants. i call them trump's fail sons. so they're also accused in this case and they have been dependent on their father for years. take a quick listen to them as well. >> we have also learned, i have been here 16 years now. we understand how the business works. >> everything we have done with our father, we have done together and we're there by his side because we love the man. >> michael, making fraud a family affair is in the trump dna, but do you foresee a

e. jean carroll. that was a case where she accused him of sexual assault and rape. the judge found him liable for sexually abusing carroll but trump never bothered to show up during that trial. he cared enough to show up today. presumably because this case is about a thing that is famously more important to him than anything else. how big people think his business is. how rich people think he is. the judge in this case has already determined that trump did fraudulently inflate his assets to make his net worth appear larger than it is. the trial that started today is just to determine what punishments the judge will impose. those could include barring trump from ever again operating a business in new york. joining us now, msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin who was in the courtroom today. i feel like you need a little bit of augmented pay for having suffered through this all day, but we're really glad you did and it's good to see you tonight. >> good to see you, rachel. >> one thing i don't understand. this is a civil case but it is not jut about business entities which c

e. jean carroll, he did not attend that trial. the jury awarded her $5 million. he is shoewing. today on opening day. and his lawyers and the attorneys will get opening statements and then it will move to witnesses. the judge has set aside three months for this trial. it may not take that long, but certainly a change of face here for trump. he is showing up, he's going to show up to the judge and show why this matters. the judge has already said he will cancel some business certificates. it's not yet clear exactly what that means, but a lot is at stake for donald trump at the trial. phil, poppy. >> kristen, he moved, rescheduled a deposition in a different case just so he could be in court today. it's really interesting. do we know why he wants to be there? >> reporter: yeah, poppy, look, i've talked to a number of his advisers and allies who say these been increasingly agitated about this trial in particular. and he wanted to show up as a show of force. really sit there in the audience, looking at the judge as these opening remarks were made. kara noted, he's not going to testi

e. jean carroll cases that are also in new york. [ laughter ] this is his fraud trial in new york. know. it's hard to keep track. donny cochran has been using this trial as a platform to air grievances. particularly about the gag order the judge put on him in washington. >> the just said basically i don't have a right to speak. and i'm being restricted, my speech has been taken away from me. i'm the candidate that's running for office and i'm not allowed to speak. >> jimmy: did all 15 microphones get that? [ laughter ] only donald trump would claim that he's not allowed to speak while speaking to 40 cameras at a press conference. one axe trump's been grinding over and over is that he was denied the chance to have a jury trial in this case, which is not true. his dummy lawyers forgot to request a jury trial. which means he's definitely not paying them. [ laughter ] but watch here, pay attention to the woman on the left, she's his lawyer. she's part of the team that dropped the ball on making the jury request. >> very unfair, we don't get a jury trial, there's no jury. i want a jury,

e. jean carroll cas, though he said he looked forward to it.emember, not everything that donald trump says, in fact most of the things that donald trump says turns out not to be true, so, do i think he wants to come in and testify? the answer is no. one of the worst things is when donald does testify the more he testifies the more he implicates himself. >> we've heard state attorney general, the unsinkable letitia james gave you a lot of credit for this suit. do think donald trump understands or thought you'd be a formidable as an enemy when you parted ways? >> one of the reasons that he asked me to come to work for him in 2006 was for exactly this reason, you know he obviously -- whoever he listened to, it would be a good idea to throw me under the bus well i think he should be on the phone with him having a conversation. one of the mistakes they made when i had to say to emily fox at vanity fair if i would take a bullet for him, but i wouldn't take the bullet if he was the one pulling the trigger and he was the one here pulling the trigger. s

e. jean carroll case in new york. two months later in march, the justice department's 2020 election case begins that day before super tuesday. you remember that date was set. three weeks later, the new york hush money trial begins with alvin bragg in. may that is when trump is expected to stand trial for his handling of classified documents at mar-a-lago. so, a lot to break down tonight here, trump's day in court, his chosen day. i want to start with brynn gingras. brynn, he was there. there were a lot of questions about whether he would be. some were very surprised. so what comes next? >> reporter: well, as you pointed out, erin, he had sort of a campaign rally many times when he left the courtroom to talk to those cameras. now, in the short term, what we do expect inside that courtroom is to hear tomorrow from donald bender. now, that is trump's former accountant for trump himself, and trump org. we finished up today's testimony with him on the stand, the state's attorney basically trying to bring out financial docu

last week a judge ruled the former president made defamatory statements about writer e jean carroll that former magazine columnist accused trump of her in a department store in the 90's. and then defaming her when he denied the claims. trump is now arguing he should be immune from the lawsuit because he made the comments while he was in office. the case to determine damages is set to go to trial in january. for the 3rd time in the past week, walnut creek police are investigating an armed robbery that happened. downtown. police say that latest incident happened around 3 saturday afternoon on north main street. the victim made arrangements to meet someone for sale and they say that's when the suspect pulled out a gun stole that item and then ran away. there's been no information so far as to what was being sold. the other robberies happened last wednesday. the first around 2.45. in the afternoon when police say for thieves smashed through the front doors of the lululemon in broadway plaza and took $10,000 worth of merchandise. the 4 were later caught. all the merchandise has been recovered

e. jean carroll. one of the other things kelly said -- i don't have the exact quote here.ut essentially he went further and said that the former president lies about his opinions on abortion, evangelicals, jews, men and women. i mean, pretty much every issue, certainly every hot button issue, that he is known for. >> you know, anderson, i didn't mean to laugh at your question. but he lies about everything. the guy -- what they need to stop doing is do these boxes and chunk this whole 31,611 lies. why don't they have a truth box and say for the 17th time in five years he actually told the truth about something? because we're just numb to courts finding him libel for things from rape to business fraud. we're numb by his crazy statements. maybe there's a different way to do this. but the second it gets reported and apparently 47.5% of the people in the country don't give a rats patooi. if president clinton had said this, i would have quit. so would have everybody else. if president bush said that, i know the people around him -- they would have resigned. they just wouldn't ha

e. jean carroll case. he said that he looked forward to it., in fact, most the things that donald says turns out not to be true. do i think he wants to come in and testify the answers now. one of the worst things is when donald does testify. the more donald testifies, the more he implicates himself. >> we have heard state attorney general the unsinkable, i will, say laetitia james, give you a lot of credit for this suit. do you think trump understands, if you're preparing to look him in the eye, do you think he understands or thought you'd be as formidable as an enemy when he parted ways? >> one of the reasons he asked me to come to work for him in 2006 is for exactly this reason. he -- whoever he listen to that told him it would be a good idea to throw me under the bus, well, i think he should be on the phone with them having a conversation. one of the other mistakes they made is when i had said to emily fox at vanity fair that i would take a bullet for him, it was a true statement at the time that i was making. but i wouldn't take the bullet

e. jean carroll case. of trump's political strategy is to portray himself as the victim and talk about grievance. so, by being, there perhaps he put some ammunition into that strategy. >> selling more merchandise. who knows, at this. point jennifer, we know that trump is being accused of making more than 200 misleading estimates of his company's finances. attorney general james to seeking $250 million in damages, in addition to barring the trumps from ever serving as officers and directors in any new york company. that's pretty consequential for a family that has built their entire empire right here in new york. >> it certainly is. trump's entire identity is wrapped up in his name on those iconic buildings and the money he derives from them. so, in a strange, way this may hurt him more than the criminal trials, which continue to think will go his way or wrongly. this really strikes at his wallet, which he values more than anything. barbara is right, we really don't know the extent of this. which specific p

e. jean carroll sexual misconduct where he was not required to be, but did not show up.s been talking about this political witch hunt against him. interestingly enough, he has been going after the presidents son, hunter biden, who was in court himself, today, pleading not guilty to his gun charges. he has been saying that they are targeting him in particular and going after him, and weaponized in reverse order. where do you see that case going? >> i think there is something to the notion that this is a case that would not have been charged under ordinary circumstances. it is a very aggressive charging theory, the charges don't stick on a stand-alone basis. there is something to that. that is now all in the past, in terms of what the prosecutors discussion was. we now have a case. we have the four corners of the indictment. he has got some arguments, the constitutional arguments about whether or not these charges are still appropriate under supreme court law. but these will be challenging cases for the defendants. people get charged with crimes like this, prohibited perso

e. jean carroll case, took steps to protect the jury. that also is a civil case.volving the former leader of the free world and people being concerned about his using rhetoric that can result in violence to people who are just doing their job. and that is what you are seeing the judicial system trying to deal with with the former president. >> so this is an important distinction. in new york the judge is worried about safety and harm that comes to people. in georgia, it is something as well to do with, i'm sorry, in d. c. and has something to do with the jury pool. the donald trump team, barbara, has filed a motion opposing jack smith's request to protect juror identity, saying president trump expressly does not agree to a juror anonymity and i think this response should be construed as consent to such extraordinary measures. additionally president trump objects to any objection that the jury faces a risk of harm due to their participation in president trump's trial. what do you make of that? >> yeah, i think you are anonymity is an absolute no-brainer in this cas

e. jean carroll case that even millions of dollars in a fine doesn't stop him. fined. this next verdict for him in that case is going to be an even higher fine. at some point, maybe money will work. but at some point, it's going to have to be moving the trial date up or jailing him. >> speaking of money, in a fundraising email today, trump repeated one of his most often used lies, saying the federal gag order is about silencing his supporters, not about silencing him. but why doesn't that make any sense? >> it doesn't make any sense at any level. it's not just as a lawyer, but as a citizen, think about it, it isn't silencing anything except illegal behavior. if we could focus on exactly what is being silenced, it is threats to a jury, threats to witnesses, threats to court personnel. if i was representing any ordinary client, not named trump, that person would've been held in contempt and jailed a long time ago. but i have to admit that, you know, as you talk to person people who are judges, no one wants to take on putting him in jail for contempt, even though t

e. jean carroll covered by presidential immunity? he'll test that theory today in court. >>> we begin overseas with the war pushing into a more dangerous phase, already spilling beyond its initial borders. today the israeli military announced it sent tanks and infantry on a series of limited raids deep into gaza, escalating beyond the air strikes that marked the first phase of this war. the goal, wiping out hamas and probing for information about the hostages. today israel updated the number being held to 222. multiple u.s. officials tell nbc news that the biden administration has been urging israel to hold off on a ground invasion to buy time, both for hostage negotiations and deliveries into gaza. but john kirby said this morning israel has free reign to decide its next move. >> we made it clear we'll be willing to help in any way that we can. it's important to remember that the idf, they make their own decisions. they decide what they're going to do and when they're going to do it. >> every day brings new fears that things could g

e. jean carroll defamation suit, and he is not required to be, and did not show up. he's been talking about this political witch hunt against him. interestingly enough, he has been going after the president's son hunter biden who is in court himself today, pleading not guilty to his gun charges. he is saying that they are targeting him, in particular and going after him, as part of the weaponized reverse order. where do you see dak is going? >> i think there is something to the notion that this is a case that would not have been charged under ordinary circumstances. it's an aggressive charging theory. the charges don't stand alone on a bases, so there is something to. however, that is all in the pass and terms of what the prosecutor discretion has been. we had a case of the four corners at the indictment. he's got some arguments, the constitutional arguments about whether or not these charges are still appropriate under supreme court law. but these are challenging cases for defendants. the bucha charged with crimes like this, found in possession, all day every day ac

e. jean carroll case, he got fined, what was it? $5 million? and the next day he re-defamed her.rt. and because it is supposed to stop the bad behavior, the next fine is going to have to be double, triple, quadruple that, because obviously, 5 million did not stop him. will it take ten? 50? i don't know how many millions it will stop him. does it take jail? and we have had witnesses go to jail in other cases. but we have never had a former president, who is the defendant. and i hope that, if it were me, i would have the courage to say, he has to go to jail to shut him up. you cannot continue to put his thumb in the eye of the justice system. and that is what he is doing. he is just totally ignoring the gag order. and the gag order is very fair. i don't think any other defendant would have gotten the judge to lift the order while it was being appealed. and he did. and the next day, he created another violation of the order. so, we can predict that he will keep on doing it. >> all right, kurt bardella, and jill wine-banks, thanks to the both of you for joining us this hour. i greatl

e. jean carroll case, took steps to protect the jury. that also is a civil case.ng about is judges in cases involving the former leader of the free world and people being concerned about his using rhetoric that can result in violence to people who are just doing their job. and that is what you are seeing the judicial system trying to deal with with the former president. >> so this is an important distinction. in new york the judge is worried about safety and harm that comes to people. in georgia, it is something as well to do with, i'm sorry, in d. c. and has something to do with the jury pool. the donald trump team, barbara, has filed a motion opposing jack smith's request to protect juror identity, saying president trump expressly does not agree to a juror anonymity and i think this response should be construed as consent to such extraordinary measures. additionally president trump objects to any objection that the jury faces a risk of harm due to their participation in president trump's trial. what do you make of that? >> yeah, i think you are anonymity is an a

e. jean carroll.that was enjoined after he went on and smeared her again for the very same thing he was found liable by a jury for in a cnn town hall, and this finding of fraud in the trump organization. are there any examples where he's aided his cause as a witness and in the arena inside the court? >> i can't think of any off the top of my head. i think of a litany of ones that followed what you're talking about, going back to when he founded his father's business. in 1973, his father is sued by the federal government for now allowing black people to move into their apartments. the father wants to settle. the father's long time attorney wants to settle that. they get an offer the same as the other is setting. let's fight. and after a year and a half, they wind up accepting the same settlement that was offered to them at the beginning. in the 1980s he took over a football team in an upstart league, the usfl, he bought that team knowing that the nfl had september and october locked up on all the netwo

i think they might have they might find that it's e jean carroll. the and lose people from the country and lose people from every class and from every kind of know, know, of you know, money, you know, division. of you know, money, you know, diviand. think we all want to >> and i think we all want to get to net zero, but we don't want to race at it and we don't want to race at it and we don't want to race at it before we're ready get it seems ready to get there. it seems insanity me to not use the insanity to me to not use the reserves the the north reserves in the in the north sea. i mean, i think we've got something like years worth of something like 30 years worth of power there. why the hell are power in there. why the hell are we using and then we not using that and then sell it? going it and it? we're going to sell it and make but why aren't we? make money. but why aren't we? why do that? it why wouldn't we do that? it makes as for those makes no sense. and as for those 20 an hour zones, i just. 20 mile an hour zones, i just. i drove up from do

e. jean carroll case which is a civil litigation. >> he ultimately had to pay?. >> when does she get the money? >> when she prevails on appeal. when the appeal is litigated. we are at the second circuit. if trump decides to go all the way to the supreme court, she could be waiting. >> delay, delay, delay. >> his m.o. for all of these. what's it like a week from today when donald trump is slated to testify? >> i couldn't predict how that's going to go. every day i go into the courtroom and every day i come out like it's groundhog day. the reason i say that is because i come out and say, that was the most bonkers day in court i experienced. >> this one makes him mad. >> what i'm looking to see is who in the attorney general's office has the necessary skill to keep themselves level while exploiting that anger in donald trump. >> the chances of disregulation high. with the documents, you had a classified document that had secrets on iran, he will go, it's mine. with this, he becomes enraged. >> that's what's so tricky about this particular case. you have talked abou

e. jean carroll trial, but he showed up for this one. he did not want any part of this deposition.file another lawsuit against michael cohen. he's not going to go through this again. this was all about show, not about go. >> i've lost count on the amount of litigation former president trump is dealing with. john sale, i want to get to your conclusion and concern, especially because in the fraud trial the judge did put a gag order on trump with his social media and that his defiance seems to be ratcheting up when it comes to ratcheting up the rhetoric and reacting to what's happening in these court proceedings and showing his explosive anger out loud and perhaps even drumming up danger and violence from his base. that's what some are concerned about. you're concerned about a constitutional crisis. can you explain? >> he's no longer the president. he's the former president, but he's being treated as if he's the president. that's why we're talking about him 24/7. that's when he goes to be caught, he doesn't have to be put in handcuffs like everyone else. he's taking everything out of