at the e.p.a.. next to him is martha rudolph, sum yearsnk is 25-som working at the e.p.a. or at that ag's office enforcing the laws. guest, he has been working on the from works that guided the e.p.a., then he the state of arizona is now in the state of maryland. bob giuseppe, also a recidivist at the e.p.a.. [laughter] most recently as deputy but also with maryland and i think also ottawa as well. it will have looked at these issues from a variety of different perspectives. first, one of the things i was doing today, just so you know, this might not go smoothly, i had a whole plan for this panel last night and edited it dramatically based on the discussion. so if it feels choppy, that is why. i want to start by picking up from this morning. i think there are some really important trends that should really guide how we think about designing the e.p.a. for the future. mike, this is very enlightening to me, but it shows where the statutes have been enacted and you see with 1990, things coming to a scr

is set up --the e.p.a. had to do cars and trucks before he could get to power plants. we realized early in the administration, before i joined the obama transition in july, there was a secret group meeting. we realized in that time that we were going to have cars done, by may come if we didn't want to miss another model year, since the bush administration had already missed another model year. secondly, would have to get to the trust. so we were moving before mr. obama was even sworn into office to get the car thing. i was meeting with a car executives. this was a hugely important realization. as people think about the future of the apa, and what they would want in your administration to do, thinking about hitting the ground running, about the first 100 days when you have so much credibility as a new president that you can make a car deal happen in literally weeks, is going to be really important to how we revealed and reassert the environmental and climate agenda. . host: a topic that comes up a lot with e

recognized and what the e.p.a. recognised recently saying well there may be a problem with the formulation we need to look into that and study it more the consumer use you described a minute ago evokes the t.v. commercial with a guy spray in the weeds that are popping up through the driveway talk about the institutional use in agriculture now to the extent that the grain in our breakfast cereal in the strawberries we drop on top of the breakfast cereal are tainted are we exposed just living our lives as a result of the use of the life of life to say and round up or in almost every single non-organic food or beverage that we normally consume now and the use of roundup for agricultural products is pretty pervasive and. what they do is round up kills weeds actually kills plants any plant but monsanto developed. roundup ready crops that are resistant to the effects of life to sate and round up so they can be sprayed with it and pretty much heavily and they kills all of the weeds and plants around it without killing the

limited data from the e.p.a. in twenty thirteen revealed that banned restricted an unregistered pesticides a manufactured in twenty three states to export only the e.p.a. doesn't track the volume or final destination of these pesticides which are then applied to crops like coffee tea cotton fruit and vegetables and may indeed be imported back to the u.s. as pesticide residues on these foods the f.d.a. only inspects two percent of imported produce so the true risk to the u.s. consumer is unknown. there's a contradiction here because i think when you look at nuclear technology we're very careful in how we export that technology but you know i think one of the major concerns we've got to admit is that where we worry that an abuse of that technology or misuse of that technology will come back to her the united states in some way or another we need to have that same attitude with pesticides. you know when i step back and really think about the scope of what we've done it's been a giant terrible tragic experiment it go

. >> the e.p.a. and union carbide adopted a remediation plant. it's a superfund site. we will let these chemicals go into the public drinking waters and aerate them out and then the water will be safe to drink. someone said, why don't we put carbon filters on that water just to make sure nothing gets through. they said it's going to aerate out, you don't need carbon. well, that was a mistake that cost lives. because it turns out the only thing, there was a lotot of oth stuff in the water they weren't looking for because they weren't on e.p.a.'s priority pollutant list so the group included other chemicals, thyrene and acilorirites is kno to cause cancer and they let it go 10 years and it wasn't until they saw the high rate of cancer that they took another look at the water and they found this. every critical fact community neneed to learn. you may think you're safe. you're not safe because there may be things in therere you're nott looking for. the priority pollutant list of the e.p.a. >> in 1996 when these cancer causing chemicals were found, all eight wells of the pa

limited data from the e.p.a. in twenty thirteen revealed that banned restricted an unregistered pesticides a manufactured in twenty three states to export only the e.p.a. doesn't track the volume or final destination of these pesticides which are then applied to crops like coffee tea cotton fruit and vegetables and may indeed be imported back to the u.s. as pesticide residues on these foods the f.d.a. only inspects two percent of imported produce so the true risk to the u.s. consumer is unknown. there's a contradiction here because i think when you look at nuclear technology we're very careful in how we export that technology but you know i think one of the major concerns we've got to admit is that where we worry that an abuse of that technology or misuse of that technology will come back to her the united states in some way or another we need to have that same attitude with pesticides. you know when i step back and really think about the scope of what we've done it's been a giant terrible tragic experiment it go

absent e.p.a. leadership, the local municipalities and the lake county public health department have stepped up to pursuing monitoring on their own. good for them. but it should not have come to this. they are only doing so because the e.p.a. has failed to do its job. our communities deserve far better from the e.p.a. this is about our families and public health. i urge the e.p.a. to do its duty and to begin this vital testing immediately. thank you. the speaker pro tempore: for what purpose does the gentlewoman from kansas seek recognition? >> i ask unanimous consent to address the house for one minute. revise and extend my remarks. the speaker pro tempore: without objection, the gentlewoman is recognized for ne minute. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i rise today to voice my support for h.r. 1044, the fairness for high school immigrants act. introduced by congresswoman lofgren. this bipartisan legislation would help ease green card backlogs for those facing the longest wait times and help our business

species act, the occupational health and safety act, the safe drinking water acts, we established the e.p.a., we band lead-based paint, we and reset atband cafe mileage standards for automobiles, we passed the substance control act and the recovery act, and the national forest act. we launched an revolution in the way america does business. consider just the clean air act, despite the passionate opposition of the oil industry, the coal industry, the automobile industry, the electric utility industry, the steel industry and others, the clean air act passed the senate unanimously and the house with just one dissenting vote. when richard nixon vetoed the clean water act in 1972, the senate voted 52-12 to override his veto and the house voted 247-23. anddifference between 1970 1969 was the difference between night and day. it was not limited to the government, millions of people began choosing their homes, jobs, cars, their diets, even choosing how many children to have based on environmental values. why do we believe that 2020 will be for climate what 1970 was for other environmental issues? b

in her ruling on thursday, judge linda parker said e.p.a. employees knew lead was leaching from old pipes and k michigan regulators were misleading residents. nearly 5,000 residentsd suits against the federal government, alleging e.p.a. officials and employees" negligently responded to the water crisis." the federal government tried to have the cases dmissed. there was no comment from the justice department. we'll have more news later in the broadcast. for the latest reaction to the mueller report, visit pbs.org.newshour. >> sreenivasan: the city of baghdad is experiencing a phase of stability and security rarely seen since the 2003 u.s. invasion that toppled dictator saddam hussein. baghdadis who once flocked to outdoor cafes, parks and cultural events are going out on the town again to experience both the pleasure of art as well as see how artists are interpreting the recent past. but getting back to some semblance of normalcy is not easy newshour weekend special correspondent simona foltyn is in iraq and h our story. >> reporter: a slight

response to a lawsuit that approximately three thousand flint residents filed two years ago against the e.p.a. the environmental protection agency for its failure to use the save drinking water act to protect them the hill and others are now reporting that a pedre judge this week said residents of flint michigan can sue and sue the federal government over its response to the city's drinking water crisis so today my friends let us begin our spring forward towards growth and reflection by seeking justice for our sins of the past and we do that by watching the hawks. it looks like. it's sort. of. like you got. to. take. the one watching the hawks tyrrel for joining me to discuss the latest on that sort of sums fight for clean water is right has writer and watching the hawks social media producer. thank you so much so i'm going to start evan is how big of a victory is this for the citizens of flint i mean you know five six years later they still don't clean drinking water so this ruling by the judge how much what's been the reaction of the i mean i think the reaction has been very positive and it

let me remind my colleagues the secretary of health and human services, interior secretary, e.p.a. administrator each resigned amidst scandal. the trump administration has not nominated anyone yet for probably the most important cabinet position, secretary of defense, since secretary mattis' departure. and when he departed, secretary mattis had a scathing rebuke of president trump's policies. look at the chaos at the state department where the damage extends way beyond america's borders, because of incompetence and inaction, there are no nominees -- no nominees -- to more than 30 vacate key positions at stake, including under secretary for public diplomacy and special envoy for north korean human rights, no nominees to be our ambassador to pakistan or egypt or qatar or thailand. this is not the senate blocking nominees, much as the president likes to blame somebody else for his problems. this is the president's own administration who has failed to nominate people for such important positions, and many of these nominations have been -- many of these positions have been long vacant.

michigan but also the city governments they were all culpable in the water crisis and then when the e.p.a. kind of sits on their hands for six seven months. i mean the way it goes all the way up to the highest seat when barack obama comes in drinks a bottle of water and land claims it's clean when it's not right and we know that nestle in private corporations provided water bottles water but then they sort of stopped providing water for flint and they've been showering and cooking with bottled water for five years someone has to be held accountable most definitely missed a travesty for five years this is still not fixed spring thank you so much for coming on always a pleasure having you on. with such a bizarre and wonderful cavalcade of characters lining up on the democrat side of things to take us president donald trump a former reality t.v. host it must be tempting for many us citizens to believe that while the united states may rate twenty seventh in health care and education we have to rank number one in bizarre and unique political candidates over the years so is it any surprise that

one of scott pruitt's first actions as e.p.a. administrator was to rescind that proposed ban and one of mr. bernhardt's early actions as deputy secretary was to bury a scientific study concluding that this pesticide and another pesticide could, quote, jeopardize the continued existence of more than 1,200 endangered birds, fish, and other animals and plants. let me repeat. more than 1,200 birds, fish, and other species are at risk from extinction from two toxic pesticides. mr. bernhardt reportedly ordered the staff to go back to the drawing board to block the release of this report. i have been working to get chloopurfau ce banded. it is manufactured by a powerful dow dupont company. mr. bernhardt's withdrawal of the scientific study serves big chemical's interest, not the public's. one of the most egregious anticonservation actions of this administration is the unprecedented attacks on the an tecties act -- antiquities act which has stood since president roosevelt. grand staircase -- the largest rollback of protections for our co

he wants fossil fuel industry representatives at the department of interior and the e.p.a. in running these agencies. so david bernhardt's ties to big oil, the very industry he is tasked with regulating, are as deep as on oil well. those ties should be disqualifying for anyone nominated to head the department of interior. we need to stop the pollution of our democracy by big oil interests. and i urge my colleagues to vote no on the nomination of david bernhardt. i ask my colleagues to consider what we can do to avoid the necessity of despoiling these sacred environmental locations in our country for the oil industry, for the koch brothers. this is a big moment, this vote that we're about to cast. this is one more step by donald trump that will result in far more greenhouse gases going up into the atmosphere, far more danger being presented to places that should be just put off limits to the oil industry because of the risk of environmental danger that would be provided by that permission to drill. that's why we should all pause and really consider whether or not we want to

of rest room be with the family or be with the friends now e.p.a. management for a long time twenty five thirty years maybe what's been the biggest change you've seen do you think during that time at that level i don't see many differences as you say or do with for a long time and and doing for a long time i have all the possible experiences that you can have i have. with owners i had the club. like real madrid like portal weeds and elected president i had i had globes we only have like mr what are the mr abramovich the glazes family the owners that were thinking about the club twenty four hours per day. the owners that think about the more than one minute but the. amazing structures i have structures that were not so good i had clubs where i had to be the football manager or the head coach as you want and i had to to. try to adapt to where every every situation of the differences are basically. the generations. the evolution of of the world and the guys that used to work when i was in port all know they out of fifty years old . and. the players now

be with the family or friends now e.p.a. management for a long time twenty five thirty years maybe what's been the biggest change you've seen do you think during that time at that level i don't see many differences as you say or do with for a long time and and doing for a long time i have all the possible experiences that you can have i have the clothes. we only use i have the club. like real madrid like portal weeds and elected president i have i have globes we only have like mr what are the mr abramovich the glazes family the owners that were thinking about the club twenty four hours but they are the owners that don't think about the club more than one minute but they are ahead amazing structures i have structures that were not so good i had clubs where i had to be. everything i have clubs where i was just the football manager or the head coach has a warrant and i have to do to adapt or try to adapt to where every every situation the differences are basically. the generations. the evolution of of the world and the guys tha

yeah poor countries are going to lose their market assets into a well if you have followed the way e.p.a. negotiations have gone. you clearly see that this is a. first policy would clear interests. everybody has acted in the past like mr wood i see important as our trances. so when it comes to international trade it's europe first and germany first although we don't shout about it back here and stance we just put pressure on our next powerful trading partners. i head back to europe via italy. i've come to the southern province of where tomatoes are grown german this summer for export. i'm on my way to visit one of the farms. the crop is being harvested mostly by african immigrants. one of them is e.t.c. in new south from ghana he wanted a better life so he made his way to north africa and then to italy now he's stuck here. i ask him what he earns picking tomatoes from the mobs are still going to do so much closer to three year old fifty cents per hour and not pay i want a son i say. how much do you hear oh i. mean you take one hour one hour to miss one hour you make one. you know so you

response to a lawsuit that approximately three thousand residents piled two years ago against the e.p.a. the environmental protection agency for its failure to use the safe drinking water act to protect them the hill and others are now reporting that a bed roll judge this week said residents of flint michigan ken soup and sue the federal government over its response to the city's drinking water crisis so today my friends let us begin our spring forward towards growth and reflection by seeking justice for our sins of the past and we do that by watching the hawks. with the. like you that i got. that we. would. be. the one watching the hawks i am tyrrell thanks for joining me to discuss the latest on flynn that citizens fight for clean water is right his writer and watching the hawks social media producer springer devon thank you so much so i'm going to start evan is how big of a victory is this for the citizens of flint i mean it's sad that you know five six years later they still don't have clean drinking water so this ruling by.

visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national able satellite corp. 2019] >> the e.p.a. bus recently traveled to texas and georgia, asking folks, what does it mean to be american? >> what it means to be american to me is the opportunity to challenge the status quo, to constantly be striving for what we think is fair and equitable, and sometimes it's not always the best decisions, but it's a choice. and i think being an american, sometimes it's hard to represent our nation well, but i think overall we tend to survive. >> and for me what it means to be an american is freedom. freedom from persecution and freedom to accept people for who they are and understanding that we weren't the first people, hardly anyone in the united states of america were here, they all migrated. >> overall, to me being an american is -- has many elements. but all of them are imbedded and woven in the american flag. we should all salute to it and we should all respect our country as our country has done so much for ourselves, four the u.s. citizen, and for -- for the u.s. citizens, and for people a

coming up wednesday morning, former trump e.p.a. official and energy 45 founder discusses president trump's environmental and energy policy. and texas southern university professor robert, often referred to as the father of the environmental justice movement discusses the movement. and douglas brinkley, richard norton smith discusses c-span's new book "the presidents." be sure to watch c-span's "washington journal" live at 7:00 eastern wednesday morning. join the discussion. >> here's a look at our live coverage wednesday. on c-span at 10:00 a.m. eastern, the brookings institution takes a look at nuclear deterrence with david tractenburg who serves as deputy defense undersecretary for policy. that's followed by a discussion on u.s. policy toward iran from the hudson institute at noon eastern. on c-span2, massachusetts democratic representative seth moulton visits bedford, new hampshire, after announcing his candidacy for president earlier this week. later, the national commission on military, national, and public service holds a set

response to a lawsuit that approximately three thousand residents filed two years ago against the e.p.a. the environmental protection agency for its failure to use the safe drinking water act to protect them the hill and others are now reporting that a bed roll judge this week said residents of flint michigan ken soup and sue the federal government over its response to the city's drinking water crisis so today my friends let us begin our spring forward towards growth and reflection by seeking justice for our sins of the past and we do that by watching the hawks. like you know that i got. it.

e.p.a. will announce grants to revitalize struggling communities. we've included the opportunity zone designation as a tiebreaking criteria in the process. this means we're helping them take advantage of our many grant and loan programs. we distributed to cities with opportunity zones and we announced availability of $6 billion in water infrastructure loans. we gave a loan to the city of baltimore and tomorrow i'll with in miami to announce another loan to help with their water infrastructure and finally, we're helping struggling areas meet their nonattainment air quality standards. when they're in nonattainment for air quality it takes away from the businesses they can attract to their season. it's allowed cleveland to attract new business and expand businesses there. president trump: i like cleveland. you know why? very good day in cleveland, couple of days. david, please. >> mr. president with the leadership of this group we've worked very hard to focus on some of our native american communities, there's lots of opportunities that can attract inv

epa administrator -- e.p.a. administrator scott pruitt. (applause) the next person on the stage was the 52nd secretary of the interior, ryan zinke. he was a u.s. navy seal. he retired with the rank of commander. he was telling me earlier it was easier to be a navy seal than to be a secretary of the interior. zinke has a distinction of being the first navy seal to be elected to the united states house of representatives and he told me the difference was when he was a navy seal he could shoot back. let us bring to the stage secretary of interior, ryan zinke. and as our moderator, jackie is a senior fellow. he was with an engineering firm specializing in energy, national security, and environmental cleanup. let us bring to the stage jackie deson. >> thank you. god bless you. >> all right. we have precious little time because there is a plane to be caught. i'll get right to it starting with the honorable scott pruitt. i think many americans are surprised at the limited ability of the president to take on the deep state. he is the chief executi

under e.p.a.'s 319 program, states retain the primary role for addressing non-point source water pollution. calls by -- caused by snow melt and rainfall runoff. which they do largely through voluntary means and financial incentives. however, according to the governmental accountability office, the extent of available incentives has declined in recent years. as grants to states under the section 319 program have declined by more than 30% from a high of about $240 million annually in fiscal year 2004. the section 319 program was initially authorized at $70 million annually in fiss tall year 1988. and its authorization level steadily increased to $130 million in fiscal year 1991, the last year of authorization for this program. this bill, h.r. 1331, would re-authorize $200 million annually for the 319 program's grant fund which gives local and state governments the flexibility to make conserve -- conservation practice improvements aimed at decreasing water pollutants through partnership within their l

otherwise it will crash out of course of the european union just to had we're also hearing that probe rex e.p.a. is maybe getting ready for an all nighter when it comes to talks to delay any kind of final agreement on this bill those in favor of passing the bills though say that they're ready to stay up all night as well who knows though we may only get a conclusion on friday morning they are. thanks for that. u.s. secretary of state mike pump aoe is hosting foreign ministers in washington d.c. to mark the seventieth anniversary of the founding of nato secretary general is appealing for transatlantic unity the time of tension and division within the military alliance on wednesday stoltenberg told the u.s. congress of the threat posed by what he called a more assertive russia clued in moscow's violations of the intermediate range nuclear forces treaty our diplomatic etta james bays is that meeting in washington d.c. so how receptive an audience is in finding there well i think in the main meeting which is taking place now what they call the plenary meeting of the north atlantic council that's al

over to my left a member of the biggest party of the european parliament the conservative e.p.a. likely to remain the biggest party also in the european parliament and he says africa needs europe to set clear political priorities to face common challenges to the benefit of both and last but not joined by dr. he is that the rector general for the small and medium enterprises agency of nigeria and he says that the e.u. should do more on good governance in africa by stopping corrupt money getting to europe from africa he also adds that we should treat africa as equal partners in trade so you can tell we have a lot of different experts here also on small to medium enterprises and there's a reason for that because of course one of the main topics between africa and the european union is trade and there are different reasons they go way back why this is complicated we tried to break it down for you. fast and as this continent has been to some one point three billion people africa has massive potential. coffee cotton and vice natural resources africa has a lot of. it has the world's you

environmental protection agency, e.p.a., it's l over hazardous waste violations in california.la is set to pay a penalty and will buy some $55,000 of .quipment juliette: ryanair was one of the biggest polluters in europe last year according to an environmental group in brussels. it's the first time that they have entered the top 10. airline pollution has risen since 2005 with the aviation industry on course to be the single biggest emitter of greenhouse gases in the next 30 years. rishaad: with regards to the chinese markets, we head towards lunch break in shanghai. turning tail a little bit here. we have a situation. .1% fallback here. shanghai market is still positive. and we have a slight gain if you can call that, flat right here in hong kong. we do have stocks, according to some people, consolidating after the huge rally we've seen so far. treasury yields, meanwhile, on the way down once again after we did have better than expected data out of the u.s. and on top of that china as well, jewels. juliette: yeah. and we are just minutes away from the r.b.a. announcing the rate

applause] >> and we know we will continue to implement cal's vision because he's now secretary of cal e.p.a. kathleen, at this time would you like to say i few words before we have others join? welcome. >> so these are my children, sarah and john and his sister-in-law and his parents, 95 and 97 really wanted to come but it was a bit much. and his brother couldn't make it either but first i want to thank you all for inviting us. it's an honor to be invited here and to represent cal to receive this award. i get to tell a different spin about his life living with the man is very different than working with the man. so i think if he was here the first thing he would say is thank you. thank you so much. thank the department and thank you for giving him the opportunity and resources to do the work that he wanted to do and that meant so much to him. when he was first thinking about coming to the department the discussions we'd have at home about well, he was at the p.u.c. at the time and what that would be like, etcetera, and the idea centered around the fact the energy division would then be hous

the congress and the f.c.c., realizing that their primary goal was not health, turned to the e.p.a. and other organizations. >> we will let your friend try to explain this. >> that standard was approved in 1998, and this standard, you can further explain. >> just to clarify from the accident -- acronyms and timelines, the f.c.c. standard combines a two existing standards of the times in 1996. it combines the national radiation protection standard, and the electronic engineer standard. since that time, the standards have been updated many times. the most recent update is coming in a couple of months. i am part of the subcommittee that sets the standard, and our standard is unchanged from that time from 1996. we are continuously looking at new literature, but all that points to the fact that the standard is well established, the standard is effectively the same in almost -- across all the developed countries, and there's no reason to change that. >> and that standard is a standard that says fundamentally that's the amount of radiation that comes out of these equipped -- this equipment

before i mean i am it came to to the office you know if we look at some of the dozens of areas that the e.p.a and if want to change the sat the form of the military in reforming the judiciary reform in the intelligence and the civil service. you know some of the repressive laws you know they have put a benchmark or what needed to be changed and it's very important that we put those changes into perspective prior to his ascent to tower and i think if they see it in people could collectively think about this changes and what he's trying to do to to to to change some of these points it will be quite understand it but yes patience is running you know and the opening up of the political space has given rise to so many rival opposition groups and the country this by itself is a challenge as i say the reform in the military has given rise to a perforation of. our mis trafficking in the country and the opening up of the media has given rise to the you know the fake news and also highly polarized social media scenarios if we put those things in perspective and and and see them. prior to one year befor

demand the most even able to achieve that using tyra's as a tool and if you look at the counter the e.p.a. agreements that the some of many african countries such as cana you know situation where it's more expensive to grow chickens in ghana and it's about chickens in europe and as a result there is this country's unable to compete and you have less food security so i think we can over simplify this it's a lofty idea and i agree with the emotive drivers but if you look at the economics of it if africa's to develop advance it has to do so in a way that governments can achieve their priority objectives using the tools they have available to them which include tariffs yes i think yes other regions but only shows go all the shogun. has already pointed out that the nigerian model is certainly not one to be following is it at the moment importing a vast amount of its own food it's got more people living in poverty than any other country in the world recently overtaking india and has perhaps the largest city in the world if not now pretty soon lagos will be the largest city in the world and unem

operating that traced a plume, there were measurements being done not only by the utility but by the nrc, e.p.a., food and drug administration, by the state of pennsylvania. and if radiation in large amounts escaped, it would have shown up in food stuffs, in the water, if there had been large amounts of ide 891231 it should have shown up in milk. so you can't hide radiation. if there were large amounts, they would have shown up. the eep deem lomingcal studies that have been done there's controversy and conflict but the best of those studies or he study that has the best data that has the best base for understanding what happened in terms of illness of the population studied a cohort of more than 32,000 residents who lived around the plant within a five mile radius and studied them for a period of 20 years. in those cases, those 32,000 people had been interviewed by the state department of health for previous exposure to radiation where they were during the accident. so it's a really spled did data base and that study has shown no increase in cancer above normal rates. i'm sorry that i can't add

he's not being nominated for the e.p.a. he's being nominated for the federal housing finance agency. it's a critical job. we know we have a housing affordability crisis in this country. one-fourth of all renters pay half their income, at least half their income in housing costs. one-fourth of people who rent, i assume it may be higher in appalachia, indiana, as it is appalachia, ohio, or higher in east cleveland and gary than it is in some other places, but whatever the number, overall a quarter of renters in this country pay 50% of their income in housing. you know what that means? it means your car breaks down, you've got to borrow money from a payday lender so you can go to work to keep making $12, $14 an hour. it eventually means you may get evicted because you can't meet your monthly rent. the homeownership rate among african americans is at the same dismal level as it was before congress put those open housing antidiscrimination laws in place. now this administration is not even enforcing those laws. he doesn't think