would be respected, they put the chairman who is the president to michigan state university in east lansing. he was made the president of it. that one black member, a guy named wilkins who was assistant secretary of labor than they thought he was a sort of moderate person. i read all the white house files by the way. i didn't serve on the commission, but since i'm an historian i got all the files from other presidents, all the white houses and that all that stuff so i could see what they were saying inside about what they were doing. so the 11 black guy who was an adviser in the eisenhower white house, who is mostly there to tell names of people they could appoint something that would give them the trouble with their job. name him to it. but the rest of the folks on their named father ted hasbrouck from notre dame and important figures so it had important people on it. >> host: mary frances berry, when did she serve as chair of the civil rights commission? >> guest: i came in 1980 after having served in the carter administration and after then chancellor university of colorado boulder, wher