some of them eastgate on train. if you could get the papers you could get on a train and go to the north. some of them appropriated the horse-drawn carriages and fled from maryland to pennsylvania. many of them eastgate in groups and that is another thing that surprised me, groups of relatives and women with small children even come it is difficult to do that of course. they were held by people either slaves or free that would point them on their way and give them some food and hide them along the way. they didn't go from station to station. there were these stations in the south. it's below the line where it was once they got over the border into pennsylvania they encountered many farmers in southern pennsylvania and then they were sent to pennsylvania where they ran the vigilance committee. he would very quickly put them on a train to new york and notify them by telegram that two are coming or something like that. they would meet them at the depot. you couldn't stay in philadelphia. you were liable to be captured.

thing to become a priest in those countries because there is no other way to get an education and eastgate poverty or whatever tribal ties have, so you get a lot of what happens in the early to middle ages. it was the only way that you could become influential. but of course there are problems in that kind of culture. i was asked when they came to the interrogator on the stage with him and i met him before and he said please ask me questions. .. his very next book was addressed the question why have buddhists not come to terms with science? and that's going to be a question, i think in some of these churches, they have to come to terms with the enlightenment. >> i'm curious how friends of yours in the clergy have responsibled to your work, and more generally, how open you think the clergy is. i guess in america specifically to various reforms of the clergy. >> i didn't get the second part. >> how open you think the clergy -- i guess it would depend on the denomination, but in america is open to reform such as marriage and that sort of thing. >> the question -- i said in -- that the priesth