they echr . so it's not impossible to echr.mpossible to refuse to do what the echr says. it's different interpretations of it . and robert jenrick has of it. and robert jenrick has failed to convince. if you look at the votes just a few minutes ago , he's failed to convince ago, he's failed to convince large numbers of his own colleagues. the overwhelming majority of his own colleagues . majority of his own colleagues. so there are different views. no no, i yeah , no, no, i get that completely. >> and i get that parliament over hinckley says . we're part over hinckley says. we're part of echr and that's where we should stay. just as parliament overwhelmingly , you know, for overwhelmingly, you know, for years and years, wanted to stay part of the european union. but the point i'm really getting to here is there seems to me, and you're the pollster, not me, but it seems to me there is a massive gap, the massive gap between what parliament thinks on this issue and what the country thinks . country thinks. >> no, you're making int

., ., , ., , echr. es,| echr. i think the honourable lady and yes, i absolutely _ echr. i think the honourable lady and yes, i absolutely can. - echr. i think the honourable lady and yes, i absolutely can. thankl and yes, i absolutely can. thank ou, and yes, i absolutely can. thank you. may _ and yes, i absolutely can. thank you. may i _ and yes, i absolutely can. thank you. may i thank _ and yes, i absolutely can. thank you, may i thank my _ and yes, i absolutely can. thank you, may i thank my right - and yes, i absolutely can. thank- you, may i thank my right honourable friend for his statement and the important endorsement for the member from east belfast, which is very encouraging. i wonder if i can ask him about paragraph 145 of the command paperfollowing him about paragraph 145 of the command paper following and him about paragraph 145 of the command paperfollowing and if him about paragraph 145 of the command paper following and if he could give an example of the circumstances where a minister mi

echr or the or the united nations. only 60 of echr or the or the united nations . of the nations. only 60 of the conservative mps actually bothered or had the guts. frankly to vote for it. so i'll talk a lot more about that. but first, let's get to the dramas in westminster , and i'm joined in westminster, and i'm joined by chris hope, gb news political editor down the line. chris, what's the latest .7 well . nigel, what's the latest? well. nigel, i'm not sure if the news has got to you over in the midwest in america, but the government has had quite a blow inflicted on its own mps tonight with as many as as 70 mps, um, eight of them from the dup. >> the rest of the tory party voting for a bill cash amendment to try and disapply elements of the human rights act to people the human rights act to people the wants to send back to the uk wants to send back to rwanda, arriving here illegally. so a for blow rishi sunak and applause for thought. i think . applause for thought. i think. thank you . thank you. >> we now come to motion right. >> we now come to motion right.

the echr ground in rwanda. the echr likely to say that removal is unlawful .t, the unlawful. so, in short, the chances of taking off before the spnng chances of taking off before the spring are minimal. >> yeah, i might have thought actually the chances of any flights taking off, the chances, paul flights taking off, the chances, paul, of any flights taking off before the next general election, look pretty slim, don't they? >> i think that there's >> well, i think that there's a greater chance of rishi sunak being as prime being voted back as the prime minister um, that's likely to happen before anybody is removed for rwanda. and i don't think anyone is going to be removed for lander. and i think the next government are likely to kick this into the long grass where it belongs . it belongs. >> okay, paul, you couldn't have put it more clearly. we're whistling in the wind. thank you very much indeed. now we have another resignation from the government, albeit from a junior position. but chris hope will update us right now . update us right now. >> well, nigel, h

amendments of 19-22 article ten of the echr.e sent there on the basis of their own circumstances, and in the inevitable absence of absolute certainty that no risk to any individual could arise in rwanda, this would mean that they claims based on a real risk of persecution and human rights violations would not be heard and that those people whose claims are on herd would be removed to face the persecution and human rights violations in rwanda on which their claims are based and this is clearly inconsistent with the refugee convention and the echr and the other international legal obligations cited by the supreme court in its recentjudgment. amendment 22 would also prevent the courts from reviewing asylum... studio: we will leave dame diana johnson that. we have been following the debate on the rwanda plan in the house of commons. the prime minister rishi sunak under pressure from right—wing tories to toughen up the legislation. earlierwe right—wing tories to toughen up the legislation. earlier we heard from robertjenrick saying t

the echr. then we not? from the echr.actually ignore the echr is that how this pans out ? how this pans out? >> sorry. yes. well the answer is that it will be held up for a month or so. i would say by the house of lords. and then i think we're in a territory we can start it and start to start to enact it and start to get some people off to rwanda. and what opponents are and i hear what opponents are saying about echr . but this bill saying about echr. but this bill is very clear . and if the court, is very clear. and if the court, the british courts don't intervene , i think the echr will intervene, i think the echr will find it very difficult to intervene in something that's so clearly put in place by parliament and not opposed by the court , but the british the court, but the british courts could actually stop this. >> still, you think , well, they >> still, you think, well, they can't stop it in principle because we've now signed a treaty with rwanda saying rwanda is a safe place. >> so the only avenue open now is for

the echr i don't mind that myself.ty in this country. >> there is no there's no immigration policy in, in the in the schedules of the echr. there is nothing a particularly about asylum within the echr what the echr is about is about fundamental rights that me as a free born englishman, value and these people in parliament want to take those rights away. >> some do. >> some do. >> andrew boff, i think it's really important and i, i presume off camera you picked rishi sunak up on his inflammatory language, foreign court. >> quite right. international court, of which we are a proud founding member. what's interesting is britain's behaviour elsewhere, beyond the remits of rwanda and the channel for example, backing america with strikes against the houthi, one of the reasons why we're important as a coalition partner with america is we them with america is we give them a moral facade , if you like. you moral facade, if you like. you know, they're somebody out with themselves. they have a european partner. we give them polit

>> don't it's echr >> i don't think it's echr that's problem. >> i don't think it's echr tha it's problemr tha it's ftotal m. >> i don't think it's echr tha it's ftotal incompetence >> it's the total incompetence of government. that's of this government. that's the this our borders, this is a war on our borders, and to be a war footing. >> end of people have had enough. i think are enough. i think there are i think there are good people in government. >> i think there were good people government people in government and around government wanted to government who really wanted to do about this. do something about this. they could what be done could see what needed to be done and edged or were and they were edged out or were gone. unfortunately, just gone. and unfortunately, just allow up allow these people to walk up the look after the beaches and then look after them rest their them for the rest of their lives. >> $- >> stop the boats. >> stop the boats. >> agree, turn the boats >> i agree, not turn the boats round, obviously take them and put other seaworthy put them on other seaworthy b

i must leave the echr to stop the boats. i genuinely must leave the echr to stop the boats .e and i know many lawyers believe, that you can can stop boats by you can can stop the boats by simply asserting the will of parliament. part of parliament. and that's part of what this rwanda bill that's going it's going through is all about. it's saying despite the human saying that despite the human rights what rights law, despite what strasbourg say, parliament strasbourg might say, parliament sets the law of this country. and so i think you can do this and i think the a really important point here also is that many people said to rishi, why have you been so clear about this? stop the boats. it's binary. it's yes. have you done it or no? have you not? many people said, why haven't you just said reduce the boats? he people said, why haven't you ju really reduce the boats? he people said, why haven't you ju really clear:e the boats? he people said, why haven't you ju really clear that; boats? he people said, why haven't you ju really clear that he )ats? he people said, why haven't yo

should we leave the echr? yes no. wow. i do not believe it. five out of five.liant . i five out of five. that's that's brilliant. i think i think last week we had, uh, some hall on she, she got four, but she struggled on, on one of the questions. it's, uh, it's a tough, ain't it? yes or no. yeah. >> we will now justify one aren't we. >> yes. >> yes. >> so i'll go council houses to justify. okay so yes, i think people should have the right to buy their own, uh, council house. was labour's house. it was one of labour's biggest mistakes the 80s to biggest mistakes in the 80s to oppose but only there oppose that. but only if there is sufficient supply of new is a sufficient supply of new council houses, a new social housing, one one line. housing, one for one line. i think one for one would be would be fair. mean, you can't be fair. i mean, you can't individually match you individually match one, you know, make sure know, so you have to make sure that are broadly that the numbers are broadly equal that the numbers are broadly equal. so if it a, you equal. so if it

leave the echr , send with alan.nd flights rwanda and win the flights to rwanda and win the next general election . simple, next general election. simple, which i seem to remember is an advert some type of car advert for some type of car insurance or something anyway. well, that was simple. mick says insurance or something anyway. we must|t was simple. mick says insurance or something anyway. we must leave simple. mick says insurance or something anyway. we must leave the ple. mick says insurance or something anyway. we must leave the echriick says insurance or something anyway. we must leave the echr the says insurance or something anyway. we must leave the echr the theme we must leave the echr the theme here, tinkering around the edges as the government is doing . as the government is doing. we'll just continue the merry go round further down the round a little further down the road. tweeted in road. somebody also tweeted in or say had a new or mailed in to say i had a new hairstyle. i'm afraid that's completely an

leave the echr , send with alan.nd flights rwanda and win the flights to rwanda and win the next general election . simple, next general election. simple, which i seem to remember is an advert some type of car advert for some type of car insurance or something anyway. well, that was simple. mick says insurance or something anyway. we must|t was simple. mick says insurance or something anyway. we must leave simple. mick says insurance or something anyway. we must leave the ple. mick says insurance or something anyway. we must leave the echriick says insurance or something anyway. we must leave the echr the says insurance or something anyway. we must leave the echr the theme we must leave the echr the theme here, tinkering around the edges as the government is doing . as the government is doing. we'll just continue the merry go round further down the round a little further down the road. tweeted in road. somebody also tweeted in or say had a new or mailed in to say i had a new hairstyle. i'm afraid that's completely an

i think we can stop the bthink it should be a echr.whether it's government takes, whether it's conservative, or even conservative, labour or even reform. but i don't think it's in the, know, top five in the, you know, the top five legislative for rishi legislative priorities for rishi starmer tice. you know, who starmer or tice. you know, who whomever minister. yeah whomever is prime minister. yeah >> moving earlier in >> well, moving on, earlier in the week, sir keir starmer caused a with comments caused a stir with his comments towards , accusing towards rishi sunak, accusing him of getting britain on, him of not getting britain on, uh, of, of not getting britain getting called out as dog whistle with some even accusing the labour leader of starting a race row. let's take a look at that exchange . that exchange. >> every week he stands here and tells the country they should be thanking him, not questioning him. he just doesn't get it. he doesn't get what a cost of living crisis feels like . living crisis feels like. doesn't the count

you have to get echr. now, i'm get rid of the echr.ng to do, but if you want to guarantee rwanda, guarantee delivery in rwanda, that's logical thing do. that's the logical thing to do. and been, you and the tories have been, you know, a bit know, on off with showing a bit of leg, saying, we're going to get of the echr, uh, for get rid of the echr, uh, for literally the entirety this literally the entirety of this government. documentary literally the entirety of this goverrwhether documentary literally the entirety of this goverrwhether the documentary literally the entirety of this goverrwhether the tories>cumentary literally the entirety of this goverrwhether the tories shouldtary about whether the tories should leave neil leave the echr with andrew neil in had to in 2011, when i briefly had to become expert on it. even in 2011, when i briefly had to becorto expert on it. even in 2011, when i briefly had to becorto strasbourg)n it. even in 2011, when i briefly had to becorto strasbourg to it. even in 2011, when i briefly had to becor

colleagues saying we should leave the echr, on what basis?believe that a sort of nationalist, populist message, that we've seen in some other european countries from italy to the netherlands — maybe we're going to see it soon in germany too — is that a pathway to success for the british conservative party? no, in my perspective, it's not. but i'm a proud one—nation conservative, so i want to see us stand solidly on our conservative values, but also grab that centre. that is how you win power in this country. and i am a sensible, moderate, one—nation conservative. that's where i want my party to go and i'm going to work my hardest to make sure that happens. alicia kearns, we have to end there but thank you forjoining me on hardtalk. hello there. it's been another very cold day wherever you are, whether you've had sunshine or whether you've had clouds and it looks pretty similar for the next few days, could see a bit more cloud around. generally, it will stay dry thanks to high pressure. and there will be some sunshine around, particularly towa

it damages the echr and many more.in this country, which is a fundamental tenet of our democracy. it offends against the rule of law. my lords, fundamentally, it treats some of the most vulnerable people in the world, people who are facing persecution, torture and fleeing for their lives as undesirables. and for us on these benches, this is unconscionable... we take you away from the house of lords to bring you breaking news concerning laurence fox, an actor turned politician who has lost a high court battle against two individuals he referred to as paedophiles on his social media account. thejudge said paedophiles on his social media account. the judge said that laurence fox, the founder of the reclaim party said he did not attempt to show the allegations were true and he was not able to bring any other defence recognised in law. the judge also said that any damages or issues around that would be settled at a later date. back to the house of lords and add continuing debate over the rwanda legislation. it is required t

by way, leave the echr by the way, i leave the echr tomorrow. think it served tomorrow.d you would would leave would leave. i would leave personally, i think it's a great document, statement personally, i think it's a great do principles. statement personally, i think it's a great do principles. yeah statement personally, i think it's a great do principles. yeah it atement personally, i think it's a great do principles. yeah it doesn't: 75 principles. yeah it doesn't work now. not because there's anything with text, anything wrong with the text, but courts in but because the way courts in strasbourg and i'm afraid, say in uk , they apply those the in the uk, they apply those the convention in. so i would leave. but practice we don't have to but in practice we don't have to do that order to get this do that in order to get this policy to work. ensure policy to work. we can ensure that the, the flights take off to can the to rwanda. we can stop the boats. belief by boats. it is my belief by ensuring that this works ensuring that this bill works by disapplying rights ensuri

the echr, which issues these judgin|ents, a body thatiething the echr, which issues these judgin|ents that usedg that in 2005, a body that used to its powers and as to extend its own powers and as a result, you wonder about the validity some of those validity of some of those judgements. it reaches so listening carefully. and listening very carefully. and these decisive these votes will be decisive and, really informative and, and really informative of what to do. what we then decide to do. >> looks bad though. the tory >> it looks bad though. the tory party fighting mean 60 mps party fighting i mean 60 mps thinking will plan thinking this will under plan won't that's obviously now thinking this will under plan wtop that's obviously now thinking this will under plan wtop a that's obviously now thinking this will under plan wtop a message s obviously now thinking this will under plan wtop a message on bviously now thinking this will under plan wtop a message on onerly now thinking this will under plan wtop a message on one ofy now thinking this will under plan wtop a message on one of

>> well, i think that our membership the echr is membership of the echr is unsustainable.clearer to the british public in the months and the years ahead. it was a separate debate from the one we've just had in the house of commons on the bill, because i don't think we actually now have to the echr to fix the to leave the echr to fix the small crisis. but small boats crisis. but it is a debate. i think now we do need to engage in as a party for to engage in as a as a party for conservatives and as a country, andifs conservatives and as a country, and it's one that i want to be at forefront of. at the forefront of. >> when in the home >> when you're in the home office. mean, we've heard office. i mean, we've heard a lot of this since john reid was in helm, actually, and in the helm, actually, and talking it being a basket talking about it being a basket case, it's just crazy. and case, and it's just crazy. and there's argument that there's even an argument that different departments need be different departments need to be hived its just big and hived off. its just too big a

. >> so i'm sceptical about echr. >> so i'm sceptical about echr. >> i'm also mindful, however , >>mindful, however, emily, that we have to stay unhed emily, that we have to stay united and we have to deliver an agenda for the british people, including those 52% who wanted or 50% plus who who want migrants sent back. >> we have to be able to deliver that , uh, um, >> we have to be able to deliver that, uh, um, in a meaningful way . way. >> and if we collapse this bill and if this bill doesn't go through, we will fail those people. so although i have sympathy with what the rebels are doing, and i respect what suella is saying , are doing, and i respect what suella is saying, and i are doing, and i respect what suella is saying , and i respect suella is saying, and i respect very much what robert jenrick is saying , i'm very much what robert jenrick is saying, i'm not going to side with them because we've got to get this bill through. >> and as it is , the ability to >> and as it is, the ability to appealis >> and as it is, the ability to appeal is very, very limited . appeal is very,

echr what do well, more than the echr, >> well, more than the echr, i think bigger that, if think even that, if that makes sense. >> i think international law is essentially just a conceptual bubble, isn't it? this has been tory's policy, although tory's flagship policy, although it hasn't materialised so far. but if they're having an actual flagship, which might have helped exactly . helped exactly. >> or if, like, uh, aircraft . >> or if, like, uh, aircraft. yeah, to be more precise. but the thing is, if they want to have any hope of, as the rebellion shows, if they want to have any hope of maybe securing a victory in the in the elections, they need to take this to the port. yeah absolutely. >> do you remember about that? uh, probably ten years ago now, a well known controversialist, uh, uttered her most, uh, death alice and a scurrilous , uh, alice and a scurrilous, uh, suggestion which were that they should put gunships off the coast of libya and stop the migrant crisis root and it migrant crisis at root and it was considered, you know, the worst thing since hitler. i suspect thous

back to the echr, you said you would be happy— back to the echr, you said you would be happy to— backechr, you said you would be happy to overall in some circumstances but many mps think when _ circumstances but many mps think when push — circumstances but many mps think when push comes to shove you won't be tough _ when push comes to shove you won't be tough enough to do it. can you put down — be tough enough to do it. can you put down some red lines where you would _ put down some red lines where you would be _ put down some red lines where you would be willing to do that? i will no back to would be willing to do that? i will go back to what _ would be willing to do that? i will go back to what i _ would be willing to do that? i will go back to what i said _ would be willing to do that? iiffi ii go back to what i said before. would be willing to do that? iw ii go back to what i said before. i specifically put a clause in the bill that makes it clear that it is ministers who make that decision. i wouldn't have put that clause in the bill if i wasn't prepared to use it. there will alwa

you know, they don't want to leave the echr.ite globalist in their viewpoints, you know , and this is a you you know, and this is a you know, and the problem going forward for conservative party is probably the one nation mps on the left who have wrecked the last 14 years are the ones who are probably going to survive this disaster. and because the red wallers that will lose their seats, isn't it? >> yeah, well, the red walls will lose brexiteers that will lose their seats. the red wallers for starters. there's an awful others. i think one awful lot of others. i think one of things that's really of the things that's really spooking conservatives spooking the conservatives is also you know, also the blue wall. you know, all those historically safe all of those historically safe conservative seats been tory for 100 looking 100 years now, looking vulnerable. yeah. >> that's interesting >> well that's interesting because for the third pmqs in a row, sir ed davey, leader row, sir ed davey, the leader of the in the liberal democrats,

and quite frankly, you cannot keep using echr.igorous process. that whole point of that is the whole point of differentiation of asylum claims. i'm afraid , ed, that claims. and i'm afraid, ed, that changed last year and they put that to one side. >> so you're we in echr? >> look, if there's case be >> look, if there's a case to be made, and i have discussed made, you and i have discussed this before, nigel, let's be honest . it's not. honest. it's not. >> our audience are hot >> our audience are really hot on this. >> w t- g is the country >> so the country is the country is because you and is alive to this because you and i is alive to this because you and | , is alive to this because you and i , like brexit, you can't i know, like brexit, you can't just say we're going leave just say we're going to leave and going and it's all going to be automatically . things will automatically. things will change it'll be change overnight. it'll be complex. to get it complex. we'll have to get it out legislation and out of lots of legislatio

as a result, by the decision of the european court of human rights (echr) on june 18, 2012, the documents presented as evidence of russia’s guilt in... the kotyn case were recognized as fake, and today new evidence is still appearing in the archives, listen, some of them were declassified fsb documents that were recently published in our media information, this is the testimony of a german soldier, his name was arno duret, this is a long-known witness who testified during the leningrad trial that it was he who participated in digging graves in katyn... history, everything is done according to the same manual, then cats, today is a storm, listen, the word katyn comes from the polish root kat, which in translation means executioner, torturer, killer, this word kat, it is in polish, ukrainian, belarusian, it initially gives the formulation, this dualism, to the study of everything catonian crimes, if we move on to... in the same way, the yeltsin center rewrites the meaning of the soviet army in the victory over hitler's germany, because the main emphasis is on the fact that the allies won. l

and the echr and all the rest of it. labour a big it.bour making a big push. mean, both parties push. i mean, both parties talking immigration a lot. talking about immigration a lot. they those key they realise is in those key swing wall constituencies. swing red wall constituencies. this issue is absolutely the this issue is absolutely at the top the people are top of the list. people are furious. they perceive it to be totally unfair. um, have labour made ground on or not? made some ground on this or not? they haven't got an answer on this yet. >> and what is happening and developing they view rwanda developing is they view rwanda as a deporting scheme, whereas they are looking at offshore processing , which is germany are processing, which is germany are doing italy are doing with albania the idea of processing offshore away from this country, not in. so not allowing them stay in hotels because having migrants staying in hotels is like an almost like an invitation to come here for those of those intents costing £8.2 million a day. >>

. >> the echr. sovereign, independent nation. >> that's the echr. sovereign, independent nation. >> that'ssovereign, independent nation. >> that's first point. echr. sovereign, independent nation. >> that's first point. the r. >> that's the first point. the second you've got to do second point is you've got to do what you know works. it works in australia. in australia. we need in the in the engush australia. we need in the in the english channel. we need to safely up out of the safely pick people up out of the dinghies border dinghies into our border force cutters bringing them cutters instead of bringing them instead of bringing them to doven instead of bringing them to dover. take them to dunkirk dover. you take them to dunkirk and which we're entitled and calais, which we're entitled to do. >> you can't return to reunite with france. >> you're asking questions with the completely premise the completely false premise here. the answer we're entitled to do that under two international treaties international legal treaties that i have read, i know exactly the clauses, and no one has disput

, were put outfits, like the echr, were put in place to control everything.ep control. we don't keep us under control. we don't need of control. they need that sort of control. they were in place stop france were put in place to stop france and fighting each other and germany fighting each other and germany fighting each other and lesser nations. so the and other lesser nations. so the idea we should still be a idea that we should still be a member. what was brexit? we're not under? >> last word, last word >> okay. last word, last word not not under not under not we're not under not under control by them. >> because the european >> because unlike the european court, can ignore them . court, we can ignore them. advisory do advisory . advisory do its advisory. >> that's the whole point. >> that's the whole point. >> no , that's so wrong. >> no, that's so wrong. >> no, that's so wrong. >> there you go. >> there you go. >> 100 guineas for that piece of advice . advice. >> kicked off the >> it's all kicked off the rwanda flights. >> there you go. this show's all a

, were put outfits, like the echr, were put in place to control everything. control. we don't keep us under control. we don't need of control. they need that sort of control. they were in place stop france were put in place to stop france and fighting each other and germany fighting each other and germany fighting each other and lesser nations. so the and other lesser nations. so the idea we should still be a idea that we should still be a member. what was brexit? we're not under? >> last word, last word >> okay. last word, last word not not under not under not we're not under not under control by them. >> because the european >> because unlike the european court, can ignore them . court, we can ignore them. advisory do advisory . advisory do its advisory. >> that's the whole point. >> that's the whole point. >> no , that's so wrong. >> no, that's so wrong. >> no, that's so wrong. >> there you go. >> there you go. >> 100 guineas for that piece of advice . advice. >> kicked off the >> it's all kicked off the rwanda flights. >> there you go. this show's all abo

echr. it's right to family life.meone pregnant, marry whatever, commit whatever, and you can commit whatever, and you can commit whatever said, no, whatever crimes. all said, no, they're the criminals, they're keeping the criminals, rightly the human rightly so, about the human rights rapists. rights of child rapists. >> how can you talk about human rights? >> charleton the government ? and >> charleton the government? and i'm not often first, governments think broadly speaking, in a terrible over last terrible job over the last 13 years, and i can't wait to see them out of office them chucked out of office at them chucked out of office at the end this year. however, the end of this year. however, in this, in the instance of this, this, you these two who you know, these two people who should be sent back to pakistan, you know, these two people who s agree,3e sent back to pakistan, you know, these two people who s agree,3e and back to pakistan, you know, these two people who sagree,3e an ideal< to pakistan, you know,

called the echr has support called the rwanda batshit.atshit. i mean, he denies you know, if denies that. but, you know, if supposedly said you supposedly has said that, you know, you work under that know, how do you work under that bloke james cleverly? now, if he's not the right things he's not doing the right things or saying what's or saying saying what's necessary, established necessary, we've established that it's necessary to do certain things. it doesn't look like that. like he wants to do that. >> work for both suella and >> i work for both suella and for james. i was there and i am forjames. i was there and i am james now. different people, different styles. i mean, neither are wrong in what they say, but of course the approach is different. and what i would say at the moment is that the position, the british government has not a reflection of has taken is not a reflection of suella braverman, or it's not a reflection of james cleverly, it's a reflection of what the prime minister is able do. prime minister is able to do. and by

echr um, blocking deportations. they kind of turning their guns on the echr. have any of that legislation to have any chance of getting through ? any chance of getting through? >> i don't think so . >> i don't think so. >> i don't think so. >> i don't think so. >> i mean, um, the number of rebels is not enough unless labour vote with them. so if labour vote with them. so if labour don't vote with them, then it won't be enough to bring then it won't be enough to bring the changes about. and also rishi sunak is very carefully poised because he's got to look at the fact that rwanda have indicated, look, that if this is going international going to break any international laws, we're not going to laws, then we're not going to cooperate. remember , we've cooperate. and remember, we've already rwanda and it's already paid rwanda and it's a non—refundable amount. so there's . already 300 million. so there's. already 300 million. so i think that the rebels, as much as the noise that they're creating, i don't think that they really have as much , um, they really have a