ecpa doesn't have an exclusionary role. the consequence of that is, you don't get the same development of the law, accept the fourth amendment claim. if you make the statute claim, hey, they violated the statute and i get to get the evidence secluded you get a lot more case coming up through the courts. we don't have that many cases because we're only in fourth amendment plan when it comes to the execution rule. >> it is the perverse against the law. some judges retaining those. fourth amendment law always made exclusively by guilty people trying to overturn convictions which is perhaps not the most healthy, sort of structural condition for the development of protective law that we're concerned about. particularly in the ecpa content when metadata particularly, which means data is obtained about you, what websites you're visiting, data about what people you're communicating with if you're not invaded because there's no evidence of anything happen. but you may not have an opportunity to bring an action against your federal c

so ecpa is a statute from 1986. and just to put a little flesh on the bones of 1986, i imagine some people in the room weren't yet born in 1986. one of the leading car models was the ford maverick. i didn't have one, i couldn't afford one. but that was one of the leading car models. we had just put away our eight-track tapes and that governs privacy on the internet was born. when we first were using internet, a lot of us used aol, america online, downloaded e-mail from aol servers to computers. storage was expensive. you know what you did? you printed that e-mail out because it was too expensive to save. aol would only save it for a few days after you had downloaded it. fast forward to today. storage is cheap. companies are out there saying, why would you ever delete anything? people don't delete stuff. they leave it forever. it's really cool. you can access it wherever you are. you can use this little device and access information in the cloud no matter where you are. you can be in germany and do it. it's really am

so what does ecpa do? it basically applies the fourth finish the changes in all the legislation, applies the fourth amendment standard to e-mails. there's a lot of reasons why that should happen. first, it puts people on notice as to what the rules are going to be. not wait for the supreme court or other courts to make maybe different opinions down the road as to whether it's lawful or unlawful now. put 'em on notice, congress has that responsibility to do so. but also we have a disadvantage -- i say "we," american companies have somewhat of a disadvantage because this rule, people know that this is what occurs, so other companies, other countries compete against the united states where people go to some other server where they don't have this problem with the right of privacy. who would have thought that this nation being the nation that's supposed to be the most democratic, freedom-loving, protects the right of people to be secure in their houses, right of privacy would be second to countries that don't

ecpa doesn't have an exclusionary role. the consequence of that is, you don't get the same development of the law, accept the fourth amendment claim. if you make the statute claim, hey, they violated the statute and i get to get the evidence secluded you get a lot more case coming up through the courts. we don't have that many cases because we're only in fourth amendment plan when it comes to the execution rule. >> it is the perverse against the law. some judges retaining those. fourth amendment law always made exclusively by guilty people trying to overturn convictions which is perhaps not the most healthy, sort of structural condition for the development of protective law that we're concerned about. particularly in the ecpa content when metadata particularly, which means data is obtained about you, what websites you're visiting, data about what people you're communicating with if you're not invaded because there's no evidence of anything happen. but you may not have an opportunity to bring an action against your federal c

what does ecpa stay about reference to access to that information? nothing. the reason it doesn't say anything it was not an issue to be resolved back in 1986. and now we have to face these issues and judge poe in his credit has got legislation to face those issues in a very good way. >> so, i'll address that to perhaps david in tandem, you can divide these up if you want. but we've had an array of court decisions beginning to address these problems. as we mentioned, location. we now have two at least federal district courts, federal appellate courts holding historical software information does actually act, because it's not a dial phone number. it's information that your phone is sending automatically with or without your knowledge. it doesn't fall under the third party exempting them basically from fourth amendment protection. but you guys are dealing with some of the practical questions that arise as a result, not just the federal statute, but involving court decisions, a decision called rorschach, holding it that it does apply to e-mail as long as it's st

i will say it is indeed the week of ecpa.e two other events this week, cato on wednesday and one on the hill on thursday, but i have a question for you that i've written down because this is indeed complicated. so what i wanted to ask is, how does nsa target bad actors if any kind of weakening or strengthening of security affects the entire world? so it's been said that the nsa has the ability to target government-to-government espionage but it was also said that often we don't know which program or is the underminer of encryption. and then how do we/the nsa find foreign or criminal bad actors? does this also mean we don't know who is hole poking in our different browsers? so really how does the nsa target? and when i said i'd we find out, who is we? >> so let me ask clarifying questions. you mean, how do they do it now technically, or do you mean how would they do it if we encrypted everything? >> actually would be great to answer both of those, but i would probably take forever. i guess what i'm curious is you all said the

this is the week for ecpa. there are two other events one on the hill on thursday but i have a question for you that i have written down because it is indeed complicated. what i wanted to ask is how this nsa target bad actors and any kind of weakening or strengthening of security affects the entire world? it's been said that the nsa has the ability to target government espionage but it was also said we don't know which programmer is the underminer of encryption and then how do we question the nsa find foreigner criminal bad actors? does this also mean you don't know who is -- in our different browsers so really how does the nsa target and when i say how do we find out who is week? >> yes. let me ask a quick clarifying question. do you mean how do they do it now or how would they do it if we encrypted everything? >> so it would be great if we could do both of those. i guess what i'm curious is seawall said the nsa does have ways besides getting everyone's information to everything and i was wondering what those

this is the week for ecpa.there are two other events one on the hill on thursday but i have a question for you that i have written down because it is indeed complicated. what i wanted to ask is how this nsa target bad actors and any kind of weakening or strengthening of security affects the entire world? it's been said that the nsa has the ability to target government espionage but it was also said we don't know which programmer is the underminer of encryption and then how do we question the nsa find foreigner criminal bad actors? does this also mean you don't know who is -- in our different browsers so really how does the nsa target and when i say how do we find out who is week? >> yes. let me ask a quick clarifying question. do you mean how do they do it now or how would they do it if we encrypted everything? >> so it would be great if we could do both of those. i guess what i'm curious is seawall said the nsa does have ways besides getting everyone's information to everything and i was wondering what those w

the ecpa has a lot of exceptions. the basic prohibition is it is illegal, both civilly and criminally, for anyone to intercept the contents of an tlek communicatielectric commun using a device. police have to get a warrant. for warrantless wiretapping, warrantless monitoring, the legal question is whether the nsa is using a device, in this case the robot in room 641-a, to intercept the contents of an electronic communication. through a very careful, very important, and very sort of interesting close reading of the legal precedence, kevin and amy conclude not only is there interception of the contents of electronic communication within the statute and the relevant precedence of the supreme court and lower courts, but also there is a violation of something in which communications parties, senders and receivers of e-mail, have a reasonable expectation of privacy. i want to take a step back. this is after all a robotics conference. the thesis of the paper is that robots are reading your e-mail. and we should care about it

coalition of companies and organizations have been pressing for many years to try and reform ecpa starting with a single clear rule if you want somebody's content, your e-mail content or whatever, stored content with a provider, you need a warrant. we think this follows a basic principle of in the digital edge what you store in dropbox or g mail or whatever should receive the same protection as the files you keep at home. right now we're in a frustrating place where we have a bill in the house that has a majority of the house sponsoring the bill. whatever the magic number is, 218-plus. and it's still not moving. so from my perspective as soon who has been working anesthes issues in both intelligence and law enforcement for a long time. in a weird world where it seems like nsa reform has more heat than what should be a really uncontroversial fix to the law enforcement digital privacy law. momentum is still building. at some point the leadership and committee leadership are going to have to move this bill because the tide is unstoppable. >> ecba reform is truly the lowest hanging fruit on th