, _ and further to the right than the ecr. but — and further to the right than the ecr, but the way ine _ ecr, but the way in the evolution of these two _ ecr, but the way in the evolution of these two groups took place doesn't have much_ these two groups took place doesn't have much to do with political ideology, it has to do with the sympathies between some of these parties _ sympathies between some of these parties and it has to be said that there _ parties and it has to be said that there isnt— parties and it has to be said that there isn't a great relationship at there isn't a great relationship at the moments. let's see what happens at the _ the moments. let's see what happens at the moment between marine le pen and georgia _ at the moment between marine le pen and georgia maloney, because in marine _ and georgia maloney, because in marine le — and georgia maloney, because in marine le pen group, her group, there— marine le pen group, her group, there is— marine le pen group, her group, there isthe— marine le pen group, her group, there is the other italian hard right— there is t

well, certainly i am ready to work with all the democratic forces but i _ do not consider that the ecres. our red lines have been clearly exposed. they have been exposed in the berlin declaration. in the declaration that many other parties have signed. unfortunately, epp did not want to sign and this is no alliance, no arrangement with the extreme right. this is clear and i would say that on certain issues, we need clarity and not ambiguity. the tricky thing is for ursula von der leyen because she is the favourite here, is that this is a significant voting block which could be a lot bigger in the new parliament so if you are trying to get policy through as the commission is, in a crucialfive get policy through as the commission is, in a crucial five year period where people are crying out, europeans are crying out for more integration, you need that blog, you need to find a way to work with them, don't you? orare need to find a way to work with them, don't you? or are we headed into a period of stagnation? i them, don't you? or are we headed into a period of stagnation?- into a period

so, when you take ecr, ecr is not the conservative group with her being a pro-european.or us, it's clear these are two groups which obviously are extreme right and do not share our vision of europe. tom: in 2019 there was a big focus on the need to address the climate crisis. that seems to have dropped down a list of priorities. is that your assessment, this is less of a priority as you focus on those geopolitical challenges? >> that is one of the big dangers and that's coming from the extreme right and that has been taken up by the more conservative's in the epp. that would be the biggest mistake if we stop our climate policy for two reasons because climate change is going on massively, and second, we have competitors be china, japan, who continue massively to invest in technologies and transformation of the economy. if europe stops, if europe pauses, we lose competitiveness, and we lose -- tom: the eu's climate ambitions are at risk in this election? >> we have to make sure that they are not at risk. for us, it is essential to continue the implementation, that's anothe

oliver: in this new orientation, do you see the epp and ecr as likely allies?we already saw that this term, especially the second part of this term, where if you look at when you had the vote, you sell the two groups coming closer to each other. not entirely, there are still a lot of differences, but the divergences were less outspoken than they were in the beginning of the term. yes, it is certainly something quite possible, and that might change the overall picture of the way in which the european parliament is going. oliver: we were talking in the break about the hemingway adage of going broke slowly at first, then suddenly. there is concerns in europe about competitiveness and its future economic viability. macron says europe is basically mortal. do you think that is a correct characterization? johan: mortal, mr. macron has often use that kind of terminology, he declared nato brain-dead sometime ago. i think today nato is very much alive, so i hope we can say the same about eu in two or three years time. oliver: you would not say it is brain-dead. johan: no

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can comes as the right wing ecr and democrat groups look to gain some ground. now in france, here is a look at the lead in weeks. double the vote share of that president renaissance party. charlotte is joining us with a little bit more on this conversation. >> thank you very much. we are joined by a special guest who is an ex-european news person. thank you for joining us. looking at the polls, we know the past two european elections, the far right was leading france but the gap this time between the renew party you present and president macron and far right are huge. i remember when he was elected in 2017, he said he would work hard to give -- reasons not to vote for the far right. it looks like that has failed. >> nothing is written and we have to fight and a democratic campaign and fight which is difficult because domestic issues are sometimes hard. we saw again this week we had insecurity, riots, for instance. so sometimes it's difficult when you talk about europe every five years before the eu elections to focus the attention to european issues themselves.