is it bussing, encouraging people to leave the area that they live in for the sake of better integrating schools? >> well, fred, after 62 years from brown v board of edegregated schools and provide add constitutional right for a student to go and have an integrated education, after some 51 years after litigation in cleveland and after three failed plans presented by local school officials, it's time for the government and the department of justice to step in. there are some 3,600 students enrolled in schools in cleveland. of 11 of the schools, some four of them have 90% population of black. whether you have the right to choose, that's not the factor here, fred. it's an integrated education. that's the constitutional right here, and that's what the schools need. there is a train track that separates white from black in this town. it's a time warp. you know, the time has come, it has to stop. >> so avery, you're shaking your head. why? >> well, listen, first of all, that's cleveland, mississippi, not cleveland, ohio. u.s. district judge deborah brown wrote a 96-page opinion, 96 pages, that the school district is not integrated. if you're black and you