we heard ed gordon a bit earlier.he family of the victims, and some response from fred goldman, ron goldman's father, speaking in the past few minutes saying that the death of oj simpson is "no great loss". it is a further reminder of ron goldman being gone, for fred goldman. and we heard ed goldman —— ed gordon talking about the families of the call brown simpson and ron goldman and the thoughts of many being with them at this moment. this was a very public event, the trial itself, —— nicole brown simpson. and those families will have to be soaking up this news as well. at that particular time. so i would imagine that a lot more reaction will come in during the day. and it was notjust the american and international watching public, very high—profile time —— people at the time talked about being grip by this. bill clinton was set up broken off from the oval office to go into the corridors of the white house to watch the moment of the jury being put back into the room, to see what the verdict was. this absolutely grip

ed gordon was the firstjournalist splitting along racial lines.view oj simpson and he spoke to our colleagues in the last few moments on cbs news. i our colleagues in the last few moments on cbs news. i 'ust got off the lane moments on cbs news. i 'ust got off the plane and — moments on cbs news. i 'ust got off the plane and checked _ moments on cbs news. ijust got off the plane and checked my _ moments on cbs news. ijust got off the plane and checked my phone. i the plane and checked my phone. needless to say i was getting all sorts of calls and texts. it's a bit surreal. we all can go at any moment. when you think about who oj simpson was, the star, the greatest running back in the nfl at the time, then a pitchman and a movie star, and the tragedy that befell the goldman family and what it has become so i think back how divided the country was on that trial, it is extraordinary. he the country was on that trial, it is extraordinary-— the country was on that trial, it is extraordinary. he still proved to be u . extraordinary. he still proved to b

fun fact, ten years after that, ed gordon, i actually got my boss at the time, james t. thomas, an interview with him. i also asked if he did it. he didn't answer me either. he still didn't answer me either. bill, the other context of o.j. really was o.j. the athlete. i have to show this. i don't think we're allowed to play too much music on cable, but i'm not black, i'm o.j. jay-z immortalized the moment in that incredible documentary that talked about his history of really denying the civil rights movement in his presence. we just thought of him as this hero, this heroic football player and this funny guy from the movies. and the guy from the hertz commercial. what do you think ultimately his legacy as regards to the sports aspect and how much he damaged that with not just the trial and aftermath and getting convicted later, all of it, talk about that. >> yeah, and there's so much. and again, joy, you really laid out all of it. i was just thinking as i was watching all of it, i was there for every phase. the usc phase, the pro phase. i first met o.j. when i was 25 year

ed gordon was the first journalist to interview oj simpson after his acquittal and in the past few minutes. ed has been speaking to our colleagues on cbs news. i just got off the plane and checked my phone. needless to say, i was getting all kind of calls and text and it is a bit surreal. i mean, we all can go at any moment, but to think about as you read who oj simpson was, this star running back arguably at his time, the greatest running back of all time in the nfl, then to become a pitchman and a movie star. and then, you know, the tragedy that befell the goldman family and what it's become. and so i think that, gale, as you know, how divided this country was based on that trial. it's extraordinary. and i still remember when that verdict came in, he still proved to be, i think, up until the end, a very divisive character. at the time, it seemed to be divided along racial lines. i remember there was a lot of celebration in the streets from some members of the black community. and a lot of people were just in shock when the verdict came in, when he was acquitted. what do you remember abou

news anchor ed gordon. >> did you indeed commit those murders? >> no. >> i certainly think he tried his best to change minds. i think at some point he really knew it was a futile position, that those who believed him to be a murderer would never change their minds. >> reporter: he may have avoided jail time, but he could never avoid justice. two years after his acquittal, a civil jury ordered him to pay $33 million to the victims' families. they received just a fraction of that. and then an armed robbery at a las vegas hotel. there was o.j. in the middle of it all, leaving with mementos he claimed had been stolen from him. >> i'm sorry. i didn't mean to steal anything from anybody, and i didn't know i was doing anything illegal. i thought i was confronting friends. >> reporter: but this time -- >> guilty of first degree kidnapping. >> reporter: he would serve nearly a decade in a nevada prison. his last years were quiet ones, out of the spotlight, but never far from the public's fascination, continuing to this day, of a life and legacy both famou

simpson's first live interview after the verdict was with bet news anchor ed gordon. >> did you indeedthose murders? >> no. >> i certainly think he tried his best to change minds. i think, at some point, he really knew it was a futile position. that those who believed him to be a murderer would never change their minds. >> reporter: he may have avoided jail time, but he could never avoid justice. two years after his acquittal, a civil jury ordered him to pay $33 million to the victims' families. they received just a fraction of that. and then, an armed robbery at a las vegas hotel. there was o.j. in the middle of it all. leaving with mementos he claimed had been stolen from him. >> i didn't mean to steal anything from anybody. and i didn't know i was doing anything illegal. i thought i was confronting friends. >> reporter: but this time... >> guilty of first-degree kidnapping. >> reporter: he would serve nearly a decade in a nevada prison. his last years were quiet ones. out of the spotlight. but never far from the public's fascination. continuing to this day. with a life and legacy bo

no one really knew this better than ed gordon, who got the first interview with oj and ed gordon remainsr johnny cochran and being able to show that we could make the system work our way because we didn't feel that there was enough evidence for oj ? i remember johnny cochran had asked me to visit oj and jill and i said this is not a civil rights issue, i wanted to go. we were torn between that. we were not necessarily oj but we were for johnny and ensuring that he could defeat those that were ill-prepared to prove their case. >> i think you are right, reverend. thank you for allowing me this time to talk about something. it's hard to believe sometimes it has been 30 years. i think you hit the nail on the head. the idea that this was not about oj simpson. people forget that oj had been a beloved football star but as his time went on as a celebrity, his popularity in black america had waned, quite frankly by the time all of this happened. it really was about the idea of finally seeing an african- american male in particular beat a system that had beat us down for so very long. that coupled

[inaudible conversations] howard: the first interview went to bet's ed gordon. >> i think the media isg the way they're feeling. they were lied to. howard: all the media's fault. kevin corke, how did you feel at the time that o.j. was acquitted by black jurors through what's called jury nullification? he's one of us, he beat the system. we're going to cheer. most whites were angry because a double murderer had been turned loose. >> i don't think this was really about o.j. at the time. it was really about the lapd. people forget that. the whole rodney king -- howard: officers were acquitted, yeah. >> literally, o.j. might have been able to do almost anything and found not guilty because of the feeling in l.a. at the time. howard: griff, o.j. was later hit with a $33 million civil verdict brought by the victims' families. this trial was such a ridiculous clown show that i thought it was embarrassing for the media, but they didn't care because of the ratings crack. >> right. and it begs the question would this trial, o.j.'s trial, be any different if it were held today, for example. but t

., and ed gordon was, and remains one of the premier black journalists in our country, and ed talkedot of black america was not necessarily for o.j., but was for johnny cochran and being able to show that we could make the system work our way because we didn't feel that there was enough evidence for o.j. i remember johnny cochran asked me to visit in jail and i said, this is not a civil rights issue. i wouldn't go, and we were torn between that. we were not necessarily pro-o.j., but we were for johnny and showing that he could defeat those that were ill-prepared to prove their case. >> yeah, i think you're right, rev, and thank you for allowing me this time talk about something it's hard to believe sometimes that it's been 30 years. i think you hit the nail on the head. the idea that this was not about o.j. simpson -- people forget o.j. had been a beloved football star, but as his time went on as a celebrity, his time in black american had waned frankly by the time all of this happened, and it really was about the idea of finally seeing an african american male in particular beat a s

a lot of feeling in the shadow cabinet that is the fault of ed miliband who is profoundly committed to this, but comes from the gordonrdon brown define what he was doing when he was chancellor? it was by a spending tag. we have moved on from that era, it is much more difficult era, and the concern is this is the right thing to do because you want to have clean power, it is the right thing to do because what you are talking about is regenerating areas that have been left behind, what you are talking about is taking joe biden's plan, the inflation reduction act, and putting it here. the mistake they believe they made was to define it around money, and that was fine 15—20 years ago, not fine now. and there is a worry you have damaged what is a very good idea by labelling it in the wrong way. big concerns in the shadow cabinet. when you see damage, just means being three times ahead in the pulse of the government. tony blair has given a interesting interview to the magazine, to newscasters looking to pay to journalism today. he says a couple of things today. including this point, the economic inheritance the next governm

keir starmer is closer in his personal politics to ed miliband than he is to gordon brown., that's to be welcomed know, that's to be welcomed because our, our, our, our, our modern era, the 21st century. keir starmer is going to be prime minister in the second quarter of the 21st century, not in the 20th century. big demands, big different demands. i think we do require a lefter, a more red, more greener , you a more red, more greener, you know, red green government rather than a blairite government. that's what we need . government. that's what we need. >> much influence do you >> and how much influence do you think actually having think blair is actually having behind because we think blair is actually having behin some because we think blair is actually having behin some of because we think blair is actually having behin some of the because we think blair is actually having behin some of the policies.e we think blair is actually having behin some of the policies that know some of the policies that the institute up with. the institute comes up with. tony blair's institute

a lot of feeling in the shadow cabinet that is the fault of ed miliband who is profoundly committed to this, but comes from the gordon a spending tag. we have moved on from that— by a spending tag. we have moved on from that era, it is much more difficult — from that era, it is much more difficult era, and the concern is this is— difficult era, and the concern is this is the _ difficult era, and the concern is this is the right thing to do because _ this is the right thing to do because you want to have clean power. — because you want to have clean power. it — because you want to have clean power. it is _ because you want to have clean power, it is the right thing to do because — power, it is the right thing to do because what you are talking about is regenerating areas that have been left behind, what you are talking about _ left behind, what you are talking about is — left behind, what you are talking about is taking joe biden's plan, the inflation reduction act, and putting — the inflation reduction act, and putting it — the inflation reduction act, and putting it here. the mistake they believe _ putting it here.

gordon brown. didn't happen. it was a coalition. in 2015, ed miliband was going to become prime minister.meron won a good majority there in 2016. we were supposed to remain in the eu if those polls were to be believed , you know, 2017, believed, you know, 2017, theresa may was going to win a great big majority with a 20 point lead. that didn't happen in 2019. it could have been a jeremy corbyn prime ministership. so these polls haven't got it right in the past. so we'll just have to see what happens. >> i mean, i think charlie's right. and if they do tighten it may well be that there isn't the stonking labour majority that people are currently talking about, where i think the conservatives have a bigger problem than labour is even if one or other ends up as largest party, the tories have isolated themselves politically so much that very few other people would go in with them into a coalition how. >> now. >> well, yes, that is true. >> well, yes, that is true. >> all right. journalists there and political consultant emma burnell, thank you very much . burnell, thank you very much. and befo