and according to eddie holmes, he has been in trouble. and eddie, even eddie doesn't exactly know much trouble he's in, but he's a government employee and he may have tanked his career by doing that. so when people say, well, the chinese are close, chinese have been opaque. the chinese haven't been transparent, they haven't shared any information. that's half true. it's very true. chinese officialdom. it's not true of. chinese scientists, at least the best, most courageous of them. anybody else, they've animal an animal that's going to get it. next, what animals have a huge population now? yeah, that's reserved reserve growling whatever this virus. if i were some other animal would be scared. you know the list of animals that have gotten it something like 40% of the white tailed deer in iowa are now positive for covid. likewise in illinois, michigan, pensilva yeah, nobody knows how they got it, but they got it and. apparently they can spread it from dear to deer. mink. the mink of there used to be a mink industry in the netherlands and in

the professionals like eddie holmes. sir, in the history of science, there's sometimes been competition, i think, of the discovery of the hiv virus or linus pauling, watson and crick, that sort of thing. yeah, yeah. and the scientists you spoke with, did you get a sense that there also an area of competition among different labs, important work, but still you need some sort of ego to get you into that kind of work. did you find a sense of competition? yes. yes. and that's that's an interesting line of thought. thank you. because one of the subtext of my book is that here is what science is. here is how science works. it's not just a matter of what science says, what science concludes, but to educate people about this virus and about science generally, you need to help people realize that science is a human process. it involves not just brilliance and curiosity and discovery and and honor, but also competition, ego, clickers, shyness frustration, all of those things. and so yes, i've seen a little bit of that about, that,