jon edgar hoover. in their journeys all three overcome substantial opposition to varying degrees of popular support for their cause. will find their goals undermined by bitter ironies and also by painful betrayals and self betrayals perhaps the greatest talents all three historians here share is extraordinary sensitivity. the way to make profound points about their subjects with close attention to private details. it is there the very moment calvin coolidge appointed a 29-year-old edgar hoover as director of the bureau of investigation was still living with his mother kissing her good slnight, going to sleep linda's childhood bedroom feeding is table scraps to his beloved puppy speedy bozo it's there to of the ambitious young radical journalist time in san antonio. as one good suit felt the tatters from overuse he got in theng habit of backing out of rooms during his public appearances to avoid turning around to rebuild the seat of his pant was covered in patches. there to when depicts the far more har

edgar hoover appeared. what made you want to revisit hoover and how does your account of him depart from those of previous biographers. well it's wonderful to be here and to see so many people out there and course to be getting this exciting prize. it's especially meaningful to me because i was a graduate student here at columbia, and this is i first encountered j. edgar hoover when i was writing my dissertation, which looked at the early 20th century, a period before he was fbi director, nonetheless ran into him, a very young man in doing that research. and a couple of things struck me in that moment that made me think i wanted to move on and do a biography. so one was that in that previous book, which was about anti radical and political violence, the teens and early twenties in the u.s., he was there is a very young man already learning to do many of the things that he was going to go on expand dramatically forms political surveillance in particular. and he was already articulating a set of ideas that wer

as i mentioned earlier, he was blacklisted by j edgar hoover.he could not have any connection with stevenson through that channel. but then he did manage to get himself into the army. general smith the director of the cia in the war had the responsibility trying to deal with war criminals. he put them in charge of an office to track down and he did a great job. he applied computer technology to tracing down the suspects. that was a job he did in paris. so he had no connection with stevenson and that, he did good work in the war in spite of the efforts. >> that was true in paris? >> guest: yes. one of the questions was what did he do in paris? so after he was? sue to first of all there is the war, he looks -- networks for the army the united nations for agency which help track down not the war criminals. when he finished he became security guy, the billionaire who lived in france. he did a little bit of work a happy retirement. especially amongst american muslim veterans who lived in paris. the dismissal with prejudice in the 1960s, hoover finall

not want to let this moment pass without saying, thank you library that congress forgiving us j edgar hoover. [laughter] now, i will take it from some of the laughter in the audience that this is not a room full of hoover admirers, and i would like to say here at the outset that i myself am not in admirer of j edgar hoover. i did not set out to write a biography of hoover because i wanted to redeem him or because i wanted to convince other people to admire him in some way. very early on when i was just getting started writing this biography, i was on a panel with two of my history colleagues at yale who were also writing biographies. one was john gaddis, who was writing a biography of george kennan, the great cold war strategist and thinker. one was david blight, who was writing a biography of frederick douglass, the great abolitionist . and there i was writing a biography of j edgar hoover. and, what was interesting to me about that panel was that though we were all engaged in this project called biography, we each had radically different relationships with our subjects. john gaddis was wri

thank you library of congress forgiving us j edgar hoover. [laughter] i will taken from the laughter in the audience that this is not a room full of hoover admirers and i would like to say here at the outset, i myself am not in a mire of j edgar hoover. i did not set out to write a biography because i wanted to redeem him or i wanted to convince other people to admire him in some way. early on, when i was just getting started writing this biography i was on a panel with two of my historian colleagues that yell who were also writing biographies. one was on the biography of george cannon, the cold war strategist. one was david blight who wrote a biography on frederick douglass, the great abolitionist. there i was writing a biography of j edgar hoover. what's interesting about that panel is that though we were all engaged in this project, biography we each had radically different relationship with their subjects. john gaddis was writing about someone he actually knew. this was a semi-authorized biography. he said write about me but wait until i'm

edgar hoover. so pauling in becoming this outspoken anti anti-communist, someone who was saying anti communism has gone crazy. you are undermining american science and american education by attack on these educators. when he said this j. edgar hoover became convinced that that pauling must be a communist. he must be doing the soviets bidding if he was insisting that the red scare in education was wrong or going too far far. hoover was particularly upset when he learned that pauling at first refused to to say anything about whether he had ever in the communist party, because he said, well, that's just pauling said, that's playing into their hands. so i'm just not even going to answer that question. eventually, caltech forced him to answer the question and he said truthfully that he had never been a communist. right. but hoover is convinced that's lie. and so what started to do was, first of all, he launched a major investigation. the angeles fbi office started interviewing everyone from pauling's pa

the j edgar hoover building of the fbi that people are walking into.his is that if you rewind a few decades ago, it was the left that was complaining about the politicization and unfairness of the fbi. today it is the right. to me it is not a partisan issue left versus right, that is a formula for corruption and as our next president i will shut down. >> many people didn't have on their bingo card that republicans would be calling the fbi or law enforcement of our nation and disparaging them. but you will not get argument from me of the legacy of j edgar hoover, particularly -- what you will get pushed back, from a great variety of people, is this notion of the unprecedented nature of what we are talking about. i want to hone in once again on this point. conspiracy is quite a common charge to have, but also, first amendment and protected speech -- >> and conspiracy to commit what? >> i do know that, which i stated it quite precisely that it is in fact a commonly charged crime, that the actual indictment does outline what the allegations are here, but m

edgar hoover and it led in part that's one of the reasons that hoover became obsessed with really destroying king. it began with the communism and with the fact that king dared to criticize the fbi. yes. king said that the fbi had a problem because it had no black agents in, the south, no black fbi agents operating in the south. they were supposed to be helping to protect the civil rights marchers, the activists. but how could they when they were all white and they were all in bed, basically, the white police and sheriff's departments in the southern towns in which they were working and most of them were members, many of them were kkk members. so when king said this to edgar, who was famously sensitive to criticism, became, how dare this barrhead as he liked to call king, how this guy criticize me and and that's really a big part of why the entire weight of the government's law enforcement bureau came down on one moral leader. those are some of the strong men that surrounded. king. tell me about the strong who worked there. skin off the bones. don't let me get personal here and oftentimes we

confessing i had a few concerns about whether or not the world in fact wanted a biography of j edgar hoover. the first of those was that in our polarized moment, hoover does not fit well into political categories that we know. he was a deep believer in the nobility of professional government service, nonpartisan service, career service. that would stand outside of politics. that is most government work going on. and he was also a deep ideological conservative particularly on questions of raised, communism, and religion. what he did was put those traditions together in a way we don't see reflected in our politics of effectively. i wondered if we could in fact have a conversation about this more complicated politics and what it might tell us about the present. my other deep anxiety in these 12 years was as david rubenstein said, this is not a period in which the 800 page book is a big piece of cultural currency. i was a little concerned that in our quick take world, there would not be a place for a book like this. and i am enormously grateful and heartened to find there is a whole world of pe

edgar hoover would be spying on his campaign. father and was very close to johnson. and so he used, you know, the dallas cowboys lineman and a few of his a few kind of former us marshals and former fbi people as security. and then when they were they had a convoy of hundreds of motorcycles from the motorcycle gangs around california and had, you know , california and had, you know, who were following my father. and they all came out to the airport and when we were taking off, they all came out on the runway. and i remember looking out of the window of the plane and seeing the and seeing that the motorcyclists try to stay at pace with the wing of the plane and one of them getting blown off his bike by the power of the engine. and we came back to new york. we waked him at saint patrick's and i was one of the pallbearers. you know, we waked him up overnight. so we didn't an all night vigil. him up overnight. so we didn't an all night vigil . and then an all night vigil. and then i was one of the pallbearers. the next day. and it was

you will not be an argument for me about the legacy of one jay edgar hoover.ivision. but you will get some pushback from a great variety of people. the notion of the unprecedented nature of what we are talking about. want to hone in yet again on this point. conspiracy is quite a common charge to have. but also first amendment and parker texted speech. >> conspiracy to commit what? >> which is why studied quite precisely. that is in fact a commonly charged crime. the actual indictment does align with the allegations are here. but my point is with respect to the protected speech. certainly there are supreme court cases that talk about the fact protected and political speeches sank site. but the notion here. it alleged that it went beyond that. any form of action and conspiring to undermine the peaceful transition of power. for that i wonder, you've made it clear you intend and hope to be able to if you are president of the united states to pardon donald trump. do you think the american people have a right however for the justice process to conclude, before i mak

could it be some microphones implanted by jay edgar hoover? no kennedy grind.it's from ike's golf shoes. you see he would put them on at his desk and then he would walk outside to practice his putting on a new putting green that he had put outside on the south lawn. well, jfk said, i guess we all have our own ways of relaxing from the burdens of office. at least i won't leave any marks on the floor. i wouldn't even tell you where that one goes. but anyway, let's return to taft. for he found in my beloved baseball another means of relaxation. it was taft to in 1910 at a washington senators game throughout the first ball and that became a thing that presidents do legend also taps calves credit with the seventh evening stretch as the story is told the six foot two 300 pound president grew increasingly uncomfortable in the small wooden chairs. so by the seventh inning he stood to stretch his legs then his fellow spectators decided that they saw him rising and they'd follow his lead as a matter of respect for the presidency. thus the tradition of the seventh ending

. -- j edgar hoover. we thought we were better off with the alabama bureau of investigation. we kind of thought of the fbi as allies. knowing that everything we did was being tracked. we figured we wanted them to know. if they hadn't asked, we would have told them. one of the things about nonviolence is we announce before we do anything exactly what we are going to do, what time we are going to do it, how we are going to do it and who they should call if they want more information. the transparency of the nonviolent movement had been present all along. that set america on a new course that led to, one, being institutionalized politically to create the eoc. -- eeoc. we had powers in the justice department that came about and gave us the right to protect the vote. some of those have been changed, but, and i don't know what's going on now, but for me it is not a dream anymore. it is reality that before dr. king went to memphis, we had a meeting in his hotel room after he spoke in new york with john conyers from detroit. harry belafonte, ralph abernathy, myself. they were talking

edgar hoover shortcomings were that was an image that he promoted despite shortcomings there were sol of the cia i think most people -- especially coming out of world war ii and the -- i think it was. knew that we needed people who would put themselves at risk by gaining intelligence on what our enemies were e trying to do to . i think that's in football it is called scouting -- scout with the other team is doing, and you find strong points and weak points to exploit weak points and defend against strong points or do the same thing in intelligence and sure there are some over the top and off the rails. but by and large, i think the fbi and the cia in past have done a good job unfortunately right now as you suggest -- it has been weaponized and politicized along with the irs, and this is not good for stable nation. people are losing trust in their institutions and a level i have not seen in my lifetime and that is bad for america it really is. gallop has shown that the media especially are down at the level of congress. can't get much lower than that. and all of the institutions are be

edgar hoover, including his role in crackdowns on black panthers and the police raid on fred hampton'stment that ended in his shooting death. >> that is one of the darkest periods of the fbi's history in the late '60s and '70s looking at groups like the panthers and, you know, in the case of fred hampton, it's very clear9 that the fbi had, you know, an informant right next to hampton. that informanted had made a map of where hampton was going to be. that map guided the chicago police to take on their raid, and then hoover approve of all of this in the end after the chicago police had gone in and killed fred hampton and really, you know, used extraordinary violence in that fight. so did hoover know in advance, so there is no hard evidence that i have seen, that i saw over the course of doing in that hoover knew and orchestrated that as a deliberately deadly raid, but certainly he was very aware of the contour it is of what was -- contours of what was happening to the panthers in a place like chicago. and he, you know, had no objection to it in the end. there is also still evidence that'

edgar hoovers shortcomings without a certainpr image he promoted.espite the shortcomings there were some at the cia i think most people especially coming out of world war ii and the oss i think it was knew that we needed people who would put themselves at risk by gaining intelligence on what our enemies were trying to do to us. k i just think, in football it's called scouting. you scout with the other team is doing and you find your strong points and weak points that you can exploit the weak points and defend against the strong points. faintingre intelligence peer the have been some that thoughg over the top and off the rails, but by and large i think the fbi and the cia in the past have done a good job unfortunately right now as you suggest it has been recognized and politicized along with the irs and this is not good for a stable nation people are losing trust in their institution at a level i've not seen in my lifetime, that is bad for america. it really is. gallup has shown the media especially are down at the love of congress. you can't get muc

of congress sort of like the church committee of old, and we target individuals who targeted j edgar hoover people. great idea. but this is not what this actually is. >> no, ali, this is all retribution for donald trump. let me just say really clear the sunday morning, and it pains me to say this, my former political party is actively radicalized against the rule of law. you've got a number of republican house committees in washington, d.c., who want to investigate this latest indictment. they want to investigate fani willis, they want to investigate jack smith. you've got the governor of florida who has removed duly elected prosecutors, and you've talked at your top about georgia trying to do the same thing. this, i think, we just need to be so clear with the american people. these next 14 months, because these next 14 months are so dam crucial. my former political party is actively working against the rule of law. that is just crystal clear, and, ali they are doing it all to protect and defend donald trump. >> jennifer, i want to pull back to what i was talking about with generous excitem

edgar hoover intensely disliked dr. king but eig's research suggests hoover was dangerously obsessed with a reverent bit t as we've seen in the media recently and run up to this book release mr. eig has uncovered details which may cause some of us to rethink king's relationship with malcom x they found that could really change the view and perspective of some of the civil rights movement. and there's a lot lots more forr i'm looking forward to this great conversation we have chris lancette and building freelance writer who will be joining the interview with jonathan eig, so please welcome jonathan eig. [applause] so a of nuggets befort into serious stuff first of all as an atlanta, i'm just thrilled to be here talking to you about this book but i've also been stalking you twitter and watching what you've been doing leading up to this event. and i can't help ask the first question, which harder writing a book or promoting one? i definitely prefer writing it because i left alone and don't have anybody to blame but myself.

edgar hoover's wiretaps, which is a great primary source for the history of this period. they said, dr. king, clarence jones said over the year we are glad that we decided to focus on congress and not on the president, because the president has come out with a non statement of the moral and political stakes are in the civil rights bill in that in that one speech that he gave and how was the how was it received in congress? what kind of effect did it have on congress? well. a few members came and actually marched. one thing it's kind of embarrassing to remember is that when when they marched up to the to the washington monument, when the leaders marched the men came up constitution avenue and the women came up independence avenue. they were divided by gender, even within the movement. then that's what that's what it was. but they came up and i'm sorry, what was i saying? the effect on congress. oh, some members of congress came marched with them, but very, very few. and they are they there are some embarrassingly overt racist comments in the congressional record put by a l

. >> in the line of questioning you want to talk about the deposition, just going after j edgar hoover and the fact she got a response is interesting but i've never seen that side of my grandmother. >> now you've compelled me to ask this here we are 60 years later in the year 2023, why is that a germane question to ask would you say? >> well, -- >> what the fbi did not to protect. >> those arere the questions contemporaries have been asking and it was a question that enthralled all americans in 1963. i found it such a role human moment to find the letters in her handwriting and she is essentially taking apart the fbi statement. >> the reason we were talking and this is almost a perfect answer to what i was asking which is the world of 1963 was one of the last surviving could testify people were pretty resistant to conspiracy theories which this c may not be the case in 2023. so, if you look at the polling inin amazingly small number thought that there was anything other than one gun man or that the fbi or the cia or any of anything a mess and that is one way the country has changed, wo

edgar hoover and and, you know, the fact she got a response, i guess, is is interesting. but i never seen that side of my. okay. now you've compelled to ask this. here we are 60 years later in the year 2023. why is a really germane question to ask? you say. well, what the fbi did not do to protect how know that is a question that, you know, historians and contemporaries have been asking since 1963. and it was a question that enthralled all americans in 1963. and i just found it's such a raw human moment to find her letters in, her handwriting and she's essentially picking apart the fbi statements. and the reason know, we were talking and this is almost a perfect answer to what i was asking, which is the world of 1963, as one of the last surviving members i can testify of, people were pretty resistant of conspiracy theories, which is not the case in 2023. and so if you look at polling, an amazingly small thought that there was anything other than one gunman or that the fbi or the cia or any of this, that there was anything amiss. and that's one way in which our country has

confessing i had a few concerns about whether or not the world in fact wanted a biography of j edgar hooverthe first of those was that in our polarized moment, hoover does not fit well into political categories that we know. he was a deep believer in the nobility of professional government service, nonpartisan service, career service. that would stand outside of politics. that is most government work going on. and he was also a deep ideological conservative particularly on questions of raised, communism, and religion. what he did was put those traditions together in a way we don't see reflected in our politics of effectively. i wondered if we could in fact have a conversation about this more complicated politics and what it might tell us about the present. my other deep anxiety in these 12 years was as david rubenstein said, this is not a period in which the 800 page book is a big piece of cultural currency. i was a little concerned that in our quick take world, there would not be a place for a book like this. and i am enormously grateful and heartened to find there is a whole world of peop

you've got to do that but i'm talking about people who just have an opinion you disagree with and j edgar hoover, these folks need to be watched. this is the world, they need to be watched, they are an american. the black panthers infiltrated because they are at the center. but start here. [applause] >> we have one more comment and right before we close, we will end with a song. nor do think our speakers again before we break. thank you for taking the time to do this especially being on the top like. we really appreciate it and thank you for everyone who showed upnd, wonderful questions we received along the way and everyonega being so engaged, its a pleasure so thanks again. >> thank you so much, everyone but a quick comment, i want to tell you those who don't know, is an amazingng podcast called political prisoner, the pod casters couldn't come for this event tonight so leonard political prisoner if you listen, a lot of the people you heard tonight and around the room will be on that podcast so please listen and there are actions w. [background noises] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] ♪♪ ♪♪

i'm talking about people who just have an opinion you disagree with that fits into that j edgar hoover these folks need to be watched. martin luther kings of the world, the student nonviolent movements of the world. they need to be watched. they are un-american. the american indian movement of the world, black panthers, infiltrated not because they are terrorists, but because they are the centers. a long list of things that need to be looked into. let's start with clemency for leonard peltier. [applause] >> one more quick comment and right before we close we end with a little song. we thank our speakers once again before we break. thank you for taking the time to do this, especially being on the spotlight. we appreciate it. thank you so much for everyone that showed up to this event, the questions we received along the way and everyone being so engaged with this and it is a pleasure. one more comment, a song, and thanks again. >> thank you so much but a very quick comment. i wanted to tell you folks who don't know about it, there is an amazing podcast called leonard:political prisoner,

lana sawyer, ricardo flores meghan, and john edgar hoover. in their journeys, all three overcome substantial opposition to achieve varying degrees of popular support for their cause. but all also find their goals undermined by bitter ironies, and also by painful betrayals and self betrayals. perhaps the greatest talent, all three historians here tonight share, is their extraordinary sensitivity, the way to make profound points about the subjects with close attention to private details. it's there when gauge points out that at the very moment cal and coolidge appointed a 29-year-old edgar hoover as fifth rector of the bureau of investigation, he was elated with this mother, kissing her good night going to sleep a lot in his childhood bedroom, and feeding his table scraps to his beloved puppy, speedy bozo. if they're too in hernandez's portrait of the ambitious young radical journalist, ricardo flores, and his time in 1905, san antonio. as ricardo's one good suit fell to tatters from over use, he got into the habit of backing out of rooms durin