with us in the studio is mike lions and professor edward barenson. and mike i'll begin with you. it is a thicky wicket. because now you have an emergency meeting of nato. what will nato do? >> first of all nato has got to tell turkey that we have got to take some time to think through what we're going to do as -- as an ally answer here, because the last thing we want is to have any kind of conflict on that border between russia and turkey there. so let's hope cooler heads will prevail and that the russians also won't respond with a military response against anti-aircraft-type batteries that exist on that border. >> but jamie mcintyre saying that this entire incursion from the russian standpoint took less than five seconds because the air space was so small. will the people of moscow be demanding some type of retaliation, and if vladimir putin does not respond, what does that say about him. >> yeah, this is also inexperienced russian pilots over land they are probably not familiar with, they haven't trained for, they are new at the game. so they continue to push the envelope. they