. >> well, you bring that up, and you use the word -- when you talked about effi barry about -- you used the phrase embarrassment. why do you think so many people focus on what some say are character flaws? why do you think that is? >> well, we have to question who's doing that. a lot of instances -- unfortunately people in the media -- i'm not blaming abody but they come with an attitude. say take mark fisher or other people who do these things. once it gets cast, it stays this way. 19 years old, there was no conviction. the fbi spent 20, $40 million. people don't remember that part of it. the fbi brought their pipe, their substance and everything, sort of stays with you. >> in living that down, how difficult has that been over the years when other lesser things will pop up along the way? and to hear this joked about constantly. do you just kind of brush it off? >> what happened, you have to understand what the goal is in some izs. sometimes the goal is to distract me from my work. it's an indiana tended consequences. to disorient me. when these things come at me, when i -- i don't take