paul ehrlich had written this book that painted this dystopian future that things were going to crash and england would not exist and we were going to starve. and economists picked up the book and read it. they said initially, this looks like it makes sense. but maybe i should look at what the data says about resources. how abundant the resources are. as economists, we look at the price of resources. you know, if something is money now it should be getting more expensive. what julian simon found is that the price of these things was not going up. they were going down. so how can you have something becoming more scarce that was becoming cheaper? so, he begins to research other things. he starts looking at nonrenewable metals like copper. then he extended it to these other resources. what he observed is this population increase. these prices, these resources they went down. he published his findings. this created this huge contention between the two. science magazine published his article. so, they had this disagreement. finally julian says, why don't we just bet? paul, you pick five me

it's really true. , let's go back to paul or lock the ship paul ehrlich. never publicly apologized for getting it wrong or just cut the check? >> guest: he cut the check any claims can actually i saw him the other day and he said i wasn't extreme enough. i'm still writing. well, paul, there's still time to recap against. >> host: final question, you were born in 1955. i was born in 1960. how has our economic world changed in our lifetime? >> guest: well, if you go back and we have data that goes back to 1960 that we can analyze. we are growing, so i'm 60. every 20 years my life has doubled. on average my life standard of living has doubled every 20 years. so as i went from one to two to four to eight, i'm really eight times better than it was in 1955. 1955. you think about your life, what did you have in 1960? you've got at least eight times more today. you really do. i show my students this and i say what did you pay for this? i paid $600. i always ask, what would i have to pay you for you to never use this again? that's really how much you value it. i ca

so ehrlich and two of his friend picked five medals copper, nickel and they put $1000 on the table saidkay let's bet for ten years and see what happens. well, ten years later the bet comes due and inflation adjusted prices of these five medals had fallen by 36%. it is during the same decade we had the highest growth of population on the planet. subpopulations during this but the prices are doing that. they writes a check to julian and julian says but would like to bed again? let's keep doing this. so as economists we've always been interested in that. i felt this is on the most important checks it ever been written in economics. >> host: how is it population growth equals? >> it's counterintuitive you think well we have this pie this pizza and i keep inviting friends over the slices all get smaller will good around the pizza. and that thinking the idea of living in a world that we have limited resources is a fundamental flaw. we recognize we do live in a world with a finite number of atoms economics is not about atoms. economics is about knowledge. of value when we add knowledge to atom

and that was followed by people like paul ehrlich, who wrote the population bomb in 1968, i believe. and it was again, a bestselling book. many people were going to run out of the earth's resources. it was malthusian. this idea got co-opted when john holdren, who is obama's science, joined with together with erlich and they began moving it in a climate direction. holder was, a scientist. they decided if could demonize something about the climate, get an existential we're all going to die unless we do, we're all going to die. if there's too many people. then the idea was that they demonize carbon dioxide and say it's going to cause changes in the climate. since hydrocarbon fuels carbon dioxide. you get rid of hydrocarbon fuels and that would destroy capitalism. so suddenly the movement became neo-marxist movement, and it still retained the deep aspect to it. now, when you get range here and you see green new deal, it's become fully neo-marxist and goal to eliminate capitalism and to take on the entire woke agenda has become part of the climate movement. now the second part of my book

i'm joined by ruth ehrlich, policy manager at the housing and homelessness charity shelter.he private rental sector needs reform as a whole and we are waiting for a renters reform bill that will scrap unfair evictions but stop discrimination against people on low incomes and guarantee the right to a decent and safe home. the government has to stick to it and bring forward a bill because renters have been waiting too long. haifa a bill because renters have been waiting too long.— a bill because renters have been waiting too long. how many people are these section _ waiting too long. how many people are these section 28 _ waiting too long. how many people are these section 28 orders - waiting too long. how many people are these section 28 orders applied j are these section 28 orders applied against? 21. forgive me. they can be used anytime outside a fixed term period. used anytime outside a fixed term eriod. . , used anytime outside a fixed term eriod. ., , ., period. there are renters who live in england — period. there are renters who live in england and — period. there are