coming into the eitc in great numbers. i have proposed in other testimony multiple ways of addressing the errors including both education, designing the statute a little bit, to combine the family-related credits and dependency exemptions and child credit into a larger family credit that would be refundable and then a worker credit because that makes the dollar overall dollar amount a little less for each provision and a little less attractive for fraud. but the main point i really want to make about this is that the eitc has very low administration costs for such a large social benefit program. where its costs are in the compliance and error and fraud rate. we don't know what's fraud and we don't know what's error. other benefit programs have very high administration costs and not as high, you know, error costs. that is because they have a lot of front end application processes. we don't. you file an income tax return. that is very inexpensive. we have the costs at the back end. but what the eitc has no other benefit prog

a learningto have curve where you are teaching people, they are leaving eitc the eitc innto great numbers. other proposed in testimony multiple ways of addressing the errors including education, redesigning the combinea little bit to the family related credits and dependency exemptions and child credit into a larger family and them andable worker credit because that makes the overall dollar amount a little less for each provision and a little less attractive for fraud. the eitc has very low administration costs for such a large social benefit program. are, are in the compliance and error and fraud rate. and we don't know what it fraud what isonight know error. -- don't know what is error. very benefit programs have high administration costs and not as high, you know, error costs. that is because they have a lot of front end application process. we don't. you file on an income tax return. very inexpensive. we have the costs at the back end. that no otherhas benefit program has is a high participation rate. of thee 75% to 0 80% eligible taxpayers getting that money is higher than any other

the 21st century worker tax cut would also expand the eitc and lower the eligibility age for people without dependents and young workers just starting out can benefit from the credit. by the way, this has bipartisan roots. it builds on work incentives in the eitc and is paid for by getting rid of wasteful corporate tax loopholes both ways and means chairman camp and democrats agree ought to be closed. now, opinion leaders from across the political spectrum have said that this bill would provide much-needed relief to workers and families. one conservative commentator wrote in "the national review" that the 21st century worker tax cut is -- and i quote --"a serious proposal that has the potential to better lives of a large number of our workers." and a "new york times" editorial columnist said it would -- quote -- "be a huge benefit to low-income childless families and two-earner families." so i'm hopeful that here in congress we will see similar support on both sides of the aisle for a bill that would help women and working families keep more of what they earn. we've come a long way, madam p

the earned income tax credit or eitc, can lose a big refund they depend upon. the federal government has lost billions, because of incorrectly filed tax returns. over the past decade, legislation to regulate tax return preparers has been introduced repeatedly in congress, with bipartisan support, but failed to pass. so in 2011, the irs started implementing regulations on its own, to try and remedy the situation. tax preparers would be required to take an initial certification exam, pay annual fees, and complete at least 15 hours of continuing education each year. the plan was supported by big tax prep chains like jackson hewitt and h & r block, both of which already have tax training programs. it was also supported by groups representing accountants, tax attorneys and enrolled agents, all of whom were exempted from the new rule. but in 2013, the regulatory plan hit a snag. >> you were so against this, you sued the irs. tell me about that. >> yeah. a lot of people thought i was -- didn't think i had a chance at succeeding. >> reporter: john gambino, in hoboken,

it builds on worker centers in the eitc and pays for by getting rid of wasteful corporate tax loopholes. both camps agree ought to be closed. now, opinion leaders from across the political spectrum said this bill would provide much needed relief to workers and families. one conservative commentator wrote in the national review that the 21st century worker tax cut is, and i quote, a serious proposal that has the potential to better lives of a large number of our workers, and in a new "new york times" said it's a huge benefit to low forecast childless families and earner families. i'm hopeful that here in congress we will see similar support on both sides of the aisle for a bill that would help women and working families get more of what they earn, and we've come a long way in the terms of opportunities women have today, but there's no question we have a lot more work to do. if we take these steps that i've talked about and others here talking about, we will do much to break down the barriers today. we'll help working women and their families, strengthen our economy, and we'll expand oppo

the 21st century worker tax cut would also expand the eitc and lower the eligibility age for people without dependents and young workers just starting out can benefit from the credit. by the way, this has bipartisan roots. it builds on work incentives in the eitc and is paid for by getting rid of wasteful corporate tax loopholes both ways and means chairman camp and democrats agree ought to be closed. now, opinion leaders from across the political spectrum have said that this bill would provide much-needed relief to workers and families. one conservative commentator wrote in "the national review" that the 21st century worker tax cut is -- and i quote --"a serious proposal that has the potential to better lives of a large number of our workers." and a "new york times" editorial columnist said it would -- quote -- "be a huge benefit to low-income childless families and two-earner families." so i'm hopeful that here in congress we will see similar support on both sides of the aisle for a bill that would help women and working families keep more of what they earn. we've come a long way, madam p

in particular, a story in the new york times found that the eitc community, the earned income tax credit they were, but do not make enough to pay taxes. that community is less sophisticated than most communities. they are more likely to go to and an expectant -- inexpensive tax preparer. host: has there ever been a case where the irs tried to set a general standard as far as level of expertise? guest: indeed. they wrote a whole bunch of regulations. they were set to implement them when a group representing me independent preparers took them to court. the court ruled that the irs did not have the authority to set these rules. this is something that the congress and the president had to do. that is partially why senators had this hearing. this is a prelude to writing some legislation. the court threw it out. there are no changes at this point. host: does that mean that in the future there will not be an effort -- to apply more rules? guest: it seems like the senator is going in a direction. who knows. you never know will happen. host: the topic is tax-preparation and the industry. does it

policy proposals do not assume the presidents of her postal -- presidents proposal of assuming the eitc. >> it reforms the tax code extensively to achieve the revenue specified in the baseline. >> are there any other policy assumptions? >> no, sir. >> and the tax proposal, the fund, does it have any impact or assume any impact on refundable credits? >> we propose copperheads of tax reform. >> said a specific assumptions? >> there are no specific assumptions. >> all right, let me turn briefly to the section in the budget that talks about trying withal with folks pre-existing conditions and the suggestion that as you repeal all the benefits of the affordable care act -- the guys you do repeal all the benefits, right, revenue savings, but you have some language in here suggesting somehow you are going to help those folks. you have any costs associated with that? are there any costs to helping those folks who are discounted for this budget? >> it includes a deficit neutral budget reserve to provide for the repeal and replacement of the affordable care act. understand,o i because a lot of pe

someone goes in and get as refund for eitc and pays someone from a tax firm 20 bucks they might not think it is complex and sat there for 20 minutes, right? the people more likely to navigate the tax code are using turbotax or doing it for themselves. >> another question right here. >> thank you, i'm edward callen. i'm a retired "new york times" economics correspondent and covered taxes for self years. bill, i have a come men if i may and a question for you. the comment you said opposition, you explained opposition to tax reform saying the opposition is con of concentrated and benefits are diffused. i understand the first point. a few people will get increase in tax liabilities. when you say diffused, you could say, a lot of people will benefit. if you put it that way, one might say, why isn't there more support for it? i think the answer they will benefit but only a little bit and you might comment on that. let me ask a question of the several interesting things you said i thought the most interesting was thaw couldn't persuade walter mondale to embrace tax reform. i wonder why that was

. >> the eitc is basically a wage subs can i. in some ways you can't link the for that. >> that is an important part of the solution, but i want to raise a couple of points related to your original questions. the middle wage worker is in a different situation. country singly wealthy can do more. the mill worker, that job is gone and not coming back. there are discreet problems. neither party has a solution. we talk about income inequality, but we don't talk about the importance of cost of living relative to income inequality. if you live in a low-cost part of the country and your wanes are low, it is not that bad. it is harder in new york. at the local and federal level we have done things to drive up the cost of housing, food and all the things that a low coin come would happen. we are going to drive the course of our health insurance down. we are going to drive the course of your housing, mortgage and rent down. we are going to make it easier for you to live your life. >> does everyone here agree the wage subsidy is a decent id