elector, please step forward and cast your vote. elector, please step forward and cast your vote. elector, please step forward and cast your vote. elector, please step forward and cast your vote. elector, please step forward and cast your vote. elector, please step forward and cast your vote. >> [inaudible] >> elector, please step forward and cast your vote. elector, please step forward and cast your vote. just one vote for president. elector, please step forward and cast your vote. >> [inaudible] elector, please step forward and cast your vote. elector, please step forward and cast your vote. elector, please step forward and cast your vote. elector, please step forward and cast your vote. please step forward and cast your vote. please step forward and cast your vote. >> [inaudible] elector, please step forward and cast your vote. i'm sorry. i apologize. elector john nelson. i completely lost my place. elector, please step forward and cast your vote. secretary shirley mccombs. both yourit's ballots. elector, please step forward and cast your vote. >> [inaudible] >> pardon me? perh

those electors -- they were actually voting for presidential and vice presidential electors. those electors from 50 states and the district of columbia are meeting today to officially elect our president and vice president. here in illinois, we are gathering for the 50th meeting of the illinois electoral college. there are 20 illinois electors who are representing the majority of wishes of almost 13 million residents of illinois. as required by law, copies of today's certified vote will be sent to the president of the united states senate and the national archives and chief federal judge for this district. my office will also maintain additional copies of the certification of the vote for public inspection. in order for this business to proceed, i would like to have the rollcall. each elector shall respond by -- "present."nt." [roll call] [roll call] >> the chair declares there are 18 of the 20 electors for president and vice president are in attendance. electors carrie austin and john daly are unable to attend today's proceedings. in accordance with the provision of the illi

of the electorate.ather on this historic occasion, to consummate the business of the electoral college, close the books on the controversial past and open a new chapter to open america's exceptionalism, give donald trump, mike pence, and the cabinet members to be confirmed and foresight to govern with humility and to point with conviction based on our traditional values and our nation's great constitution. ss their families, loved ones, colleagues, and peers. bless the governor, members and senate of the house, the electoral college, and it are telling the of our nation as a whole. america, and all the people say amen. >> amen. >> say amen again. >> amen. >> thank you. nominations are now in order for the chair of the 20 16th presidential electoral college. i will now recognize an individual for the purpose of making a nomination. >> doing a hell of a job. governor snyder: thank you. thank you, hank. do we have a second? we have a second. our nominations are closed. thank you. all in favor of governor r

the members of the electors of the electoral college of pennsylvania will come to order. as our young students lead us in the pledge of allegiance. [pledge of allegience] >> thank you pages. you pages. i now call upon the reverend canon lovelace and ask him to invoke god's blessings on these proceedings. let us pray. we give you thanks for this good land that we have received as our inheritance. toplay that we may continue be good stewards of all that has been entrusted to our care. as a nation, we have a history of sound government established by our founders for the sake of all food dwell in this land and the freedom to choose those who occupy leadership positions. at all levels of government. filled with wisdom those to whom we trust the leadership and authority that they might seek justice and peace for all people. be present now with the 58th electoral college, for the commonwealth of pennsylvania as a fulfill their constitutional duty in the election of the president and vice president the united states. coverage, to decide that which serves the welfare of all unite

seconded by elector gately.

hillary clinton getting 232 electoral votes. double trouble winning with 306 electoral votes. -- donald trump winning with 306 on 12 votes. let's take you to the u.s. constitution which frames what will be happening today in a state capitals. "the electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for president and vice president, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves, they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as president and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as president and of all persons voted for as and of the number of votes for each which lists they shall sign and certify and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the united states." democrats trying to block donald trump from getting the necessary 270 electoral votes, including this web video released late last week. >> my name is brent and i'm a member of the electoral college. there are 538 of us. since there has been confusion i want to explain. our founding father

[ cheering and applause ] >> congratulations texas electors. >> now, pennsylvania electors cast their vote for president and vice president at the state capital. donald trump and mike pence received 20 electoral college votes. pedro cortis and governor wolf spoke at the proceedings, this is an hour and 10 minutes. >> good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. i'm robert torres, executive deputy secretary of the commonwealth. it's my honour to welcome you to the 58th electoral college of the commonwealth of pennsylvania. please turn off all cellphones and all other electronics communication devices. at this time would you please rise. i would like to present to you what you would like to present the honourable a kort ez, secretary of the commonwealth. the deputy chief of staff for the governor of the commonwealth. the reverend canon david loughly. >> the honourable chief justice of the supreme court of pennsylvania. and the officers of the 58th electoral college of pennsylvania. >>> please be seated. as secretary of the commonwealth it's my honour to reside until the electoral of college or

who may also be palatable to the republican electors try to overturn the electoral college results. they were looking for a signal from the clinton campaign that this was an acceptable and desired outcome. we did not see that. that is why you saw only a handful of democratic electors pilaf in that effort that i mentioned including colin powell. we did not see that. i think there was a clear effort. witheard that starting hillary clinton's concession speech the day after the election. an effort to move on it publicly and not mount any kind of pure is challenge. the only tangentially joined the recount that jill stein had pushed for in those three states you mentioned including michigan, pennsylvania, and wisconsin. we have seen a couple of statements. you hear them when the clintons talk privately. they talk about the letter from the fbi director and how that turned the election. and there is perhaps a little bit of bitterness and regret. but publicly, we have not seen anything that jeopardizes this. weree other argument we hearing from those trying to block the electoral college vot

elector-at-large. hank, just yell out you are here. elector-at-large joseph guzman.st district, john haggard. second district, jack holmes. third district, kelly mitchell. fourth district, judy rapanos. fifth district, henry hatter. sixth district, robert weitt. seventh district, wyckham seelig. eighth district, ross ensign. nice district, michael banerian. 10th district, brian fairbrother. 11th district, ken crider. 12th district, mary vaughn. 13th district, jim rhoades. 14th district, william rauwerdink. all electors are present. the chief justice. giving the oath of office. [applause] chief justice: thank you. there are many occasions i have been blessed. none more poignant than this. will the electors please stand and raise your right hand? it looks like all of you figured out the right hand. ok, good. [laughter] chief justice: now, do you solemnly swear you will support the constitution of the united states and the constitution of this state and that you will faithfully discharge the duties of the office of elector of president and vice president of the united s

a few democratic electors. some of them it was an effort to join with potential republican defectors. in washington, colin powell got three votes. not because they wanted colin powell to be president. they were hoping to deny donald trump, and an elector voted for another candidate because they didn't want to go for hillary clinton. this is more than we sa seen. you have to go back to 2004 to find another that didn't vote for the candidate. it's not a widespread kind of defection that would have threatened trump's chances to be the next president. >> and yet we saw the effort by the hamilton electors, we saw chris in texas, one of the faceless electors, a republican that you pointed out is key, keating a lot of attention, too much media attention basted on what happened today? >> i don't know if it's too much media attention, i think it draws attention to the system by which we elect the president in the united states. the electoral college, when it began, in some states the electors fulfilled the will of the p

i now move that the electors of this college unanimously agree to forego their compensation as electors and have the money designated to an organization which assists the brave men and women who wish to make the united states their home, the new york immigration coalition. >> thank you very much. thank you, mr. speaker. >> mr. president, i second the motion that the electors of this college unanimously agree to forego their compensation as electors and have the money designated to go to an organization which assists the brave men and women and children wishing to make the united states their home, new york immigration coalition. [applause] >> thank you very much. it has been moved and seconded that the electors forego their compensation and instead donate it to the new york immigration coalition. all those in favor signify by saying aye. the motion is carried. the chair recognizes the honorable william deblasio of new york county. >> thank you, mr. president. i move that the proceedings of the electoral college of the great state of new york be printed and bound. >> thank you, mr. mayor

some states do blind electors and well known electors, for example, i recently learned this.ormer president bill clinton is one, but what about the other 53? who ge 537? who gets to be one? >> all over the map. people who run the republican and democratic party. some are just donors or activists and this year, you had a very divisive primary on both sides, really, which resulted in some newcomers getting involved which is why, any uncertainty at all, the fact so many people are not long time political players that manage to get through this process, state conventions and local conventions where they get nominated. >> after voting, rufesults are sent to congress and what happens? >> congress, actually, joe biden the president of the senate will unseal these votes and do the official count to ensure that donald trump received his 270 members that can actually challenge any votes they'd like to challenge but it's up to them entirely which votes to accept and not to accept but presumably, they will go along with what they receive. >> kids are bummed out. they thought they were on

with respect to the electoral the electoral college is a vestige, a carryover from vision of how our federal government was going to work that put a lot a premium on states. it used to be the senate was not elected directly. it was legislatures. -- type ofame time thinking that gives wyoming 2 senators with half a million people and californiapeople and3 million that death the same 2. host: appeal from california. you are on. caller: good morning. commentlike to make a that in the gentleman from pennsylvania and virginia made good points. them 100%.h the whole idea is this. if you are going to change something, let's change it not at this time. i think it was a democrat up.ing, obama ran the next day, everybody went to work. i did not vote for obama, but i went to work. i did not ride around the street and make trouble for the entire country. if where going to change that, let's change it in a nice way so everybody can be nice and not creating these problems for everybody else. saying,ink, what i am donald trump, i guarantee he will be the breast -- he will be the best president. and

elector, please step forward nd cast your vote. elector, please step forward nd cast your vote. elector, please step forward nd cast your vote. inaudible] >> elector, please step forward nd cast your vote. ecretary shirley mccome. actually it's both your battles. - ballots. >> perhaps my instructions were not clear. if you only submitting your ballot or president, would you please step toward now and submit your ballot for vice president. if there is anybody who only submitted rather than two come forward and submit your second allot. chairperson, please step orward and cast your ballot. >> all the ballots having been cast, the will now tally the votes. >> it's my pleasure to announce that hillary clinton received 20 electoral votes for president of the united states. each eelectric tor is now required to sign six copies for the certificates of votes which will be distributed on to the proper authority. staff will begin the distribution. we should be at ease while the necessary signatures are athered. >> the certificates of vote have a been received. having been completed the ch

with 165 so far, 11 electoral votes so we are seeking additional states hoping to get 105 more electoral votes. host: why is that a better way? mr. koza: it's a better way because the constitution has a built-in mechanism for reform. it gave the states exclusive power to determine the method of awarding electoral votes. the states have used different methods over the years. some of the states at the beginning had the governor involved in picking the electors. some of the states, the legislature picked the electors or they did it by district and so forth. the states have the power. we think it is good power for the states to have. we would like to have the state change from winner take all to a system of national popular vote. host: two guests joining us. john koza of national popular vote and james hulme, an attorney in town. ecole offered the pc can find at the washington post website in defense of the electoral college. both of these gentlemen to talk about the college. if you what to ask a question, call the lines (202) 748-8001 , for republicans and (202) 748-8000 for democrats and (

electors. >> reporter: trump fighting back tweeting, if my many supporters acted and threatened people like those who lost the election are doing, they would be scorned and called terrible names. after praising the electoral college over the weekend. >> the electoral vote, i never appreciated it until now. how genius it was. >> reporter: meanwhile, the president-elect's top aides continue to question russia's interference in the u.s. election, now asking for a unified presentation from u.s. intelligence agencies. >> if there is this conclusive opinion among all of these intelligence agencies, then they should issue a report or they should stand in front of a camera and make the case. >> reporter: president obama speaking out about the hack operation in a new interview. >> the issue now is not relitigating the election. the issue now is for us to learn lessons so that we don't have an ongoing situation in every election cycle where you have substantial foreign influence in our campaigns. >> repo

elector-at-large. hank, just yell out you are here. elector-at-large joseph guzman.st district, john haggard. second district, jack holmes. third district, kelly mitchell. fourth district, judy rapanos. fifth district, henry hatter. 6th district, robert weitt. seventh district, wyckham seeling. eighth district, ross ensign. nice district, michael banerian. 10th district, brian fairbrother. 11th district, ken crider. 12th district, mary vaughn. 13th district, jim rhoades. 14th district, william rotter dink -- rauwerdink. great, although there's -- all electors are present. the chief justice. [applause] chief justice: thank you. there are many occasions i have been blessed. none more poignant than this. will the electors please stand and raise your right hand? it looks like all of you figured out the right hand. good. [laughter] chief justice: now, do you solemnly swear you will support the constitution of the united states and the constitution of this state and that you will gratefully discharge the duties of the office of elector of president and vice president of th

cuomo: electors and guests, this one out include the proceedings of the 2016 electoral college.hink electors, thank the students and teachers are joined us here today. happen. seen history thank you all, this meeting is now adjourn. poundingunding --gavel ] announcer: now from the mission state capital -- the michigan state capitol in lansing, governor trump -- donald trump governor mike pence received the electoral votes. this proceeding is 40 minutes.

that's a way of changing the electoral system and the electoral college without the constitutional limite are things of the limit that you do the change it. point two in terms of the democrats right now. i do think that democrats lost their election and they need to stay focus on it. they did not have an economic message that appeals and for most of the geographic area of the country. >> all right. >> democrats have to focus on the economy, they have for fundamentally rebuild their states apparatus and find candidates that has an appeal. julian, got to give you the last word there. >> thank you both very much. >> thank you. >> always a feisty panel. we got a lot more ahead on msnbc. hang on. >>> it is time for your business entrepreneur of the week. ' tis the season. this landscaper spends the holiday season hand crafting wreath. for more, watch your business sunday morning at 7:30 on msnbc. will your business be ready when growth presents itself? american express open cards can help you take on a new job, or fill a big order or expand your office and take on whatever comes next. find ou

like i said, that elector, one elector in michigan receiving death threats. also of note, michigan native michael moore posting to facebook that he would actually pay the fine for any elector who decided to vote his or her conscience and actually go rogue on this vote. however, michigan just one of 28 states that does have a faithless elector law which means all electors here are bound. i talked to republican party officials here. they say they do not expect any problems. they expect all 16 electors to cast their ballots for donald trump. however, they do say if there were to be a problem, it actually wouldn't be a problem because any elector who does not cast their ballot here in michigan for donald trump would simply be replaced. john? >> that's what the state law says in that state. jessica schneider, thanks so much. jessica was talking about a michigan elector who had been receiving threats. that man is michael beneri, one of 16 electors in that state. he joins us now by phone. thanks so much for joining us. why don't you tell us what the last week has be

in the electoral college. guess the final numbers are now at 306, and she is down to a very low number. >> why would the cia put out the story that the russians wanted you to win? >> i'm not sure they put it out. i think the democrats are putting it out because they suffered one of the greatest defeats in the history of politics in this country. >> in reality, it was not one of the greatest in history. in fact, out of the 58 presidential elections, trump's win ranks 46th. i'm joined by a democratic elector from colorado. polly, thank you for being here. tell me what you hope happened today, give us the scene of what actually happened. >> i hoped today we would get 38 republicans electors who would put country before party and would support -- i really wanted them to vote for hillary clinton. but i knew that probably wouldn't happen. so then we encouraged them to vote for, you know, governor kasich or senator mccain or one of the republicans that we know would be a reliable president. anyone other than trump. a

it would take 37 electors, republican electors, to change their mind. but then even if that would happen, it would go to the house of representatives controlled by republicans. so do we think the u.s. house would actually hand the election to donald trump. this is sort of an academic discussion, academic exercise. some democratic electors see this as one final opportunity here. but the reality is that donald trump later today in a few hours will officially become the 45th president-elect and will be sworn in next month. no other way to look at it. >> some republicans might be asking why don't you put your energies into something else like say figure out why democrats lost and how you can -- how you can get more democrats elected into governorships and state legislatures across the country. >> well, first of all, the questions have come from both democratic and republican electors. look, i and others are very realistic about this and i have not actually called on any electors to do any particular decision. just to search their conscience, study the issue

. >> the constitution gives electors the right to vote for any eligible person. >> now some electorallege members vowing to change sides. we're with one who has received death threats. could it really overturn the results? >>> plus, the traffickers. behind the bright lights and seductive poses, a dark underworld. >> how many girls would you estimate to be trafficked here? >> the unlikely respiratory exposing black markets, extracting secrets from shadowy figures, tracing guns, organs and humans on their way. >>> this leading lady has mastered the art of herding clowns. a tip of our giant hat to the first female ring master of the ringling brothers circus. but first the "nightline" five. >>> number one in just ♪ ♪ >> good evening, thank you for joining us. reports of russian hackers attempting to influence the election have some members of the electoral college rethinking their votes. at least one is paying a price for it, receiving hate mail and threats. but he says the anger of his fellow americans will not deter him from putting principle over party. here's abc's david wright. >> i

casting his electoral vote for bernie sanders. so that would actually jump the number to 38 or so, but it's unlikely that we're going to see something, a situation that donald trump dips below 270 electoral votes. but even if donald trump dips below 270 electoral votes, that would actually go to the house of representatives that would decide and republicans have not only a majority in the house of representatives, but they also have held a majority of states. if this goes to the house, there's going to be almost no way for a democrat to be able to win. so chris, hopefully that makes things a little bit simple on what's happening today. >> reality check in a big way. thank you, mark murray. good to see you. >> thank you, chris. >>> bipartisan push to investigate the interference in the election. i'll talk with jack, a member of the senate select intelligence committee. we'll talk about what he thinks congress should do now and if he thinks russia is still hacking in the u.s. >>> and here's a live look at electors in jackson, missis

all 20 electoral votes, no change from the electorate. they all went to donald trump and we're seeing that play out also they have certified the vote signing it. that will be handed over and taken to someone in washington, and they will certify it further, but their business is pretty much done here when it comes to the election they have from he elected donald trump as their next president. >> sara sidner, using her golf commentator voice, because this is in progress in harrisburg, pennsylvania. rosa, talk to us about wisconsin. because the president-elect won that state by a narrow margin, just under 23,000 votes. what are you hearing from the state's electors? 10 electors. >> reporter: well, you know, i should note that electors are going through a roll call now. what you're seeing behind me. electors are sitting and also, brianna, i wand to hand the camera over. there is a lot of interest from the public here. you can see that there are a lot of people sitting in the audience and there are two overflow rooms filled with people who are

pell but some of the others who want to see 37 electors defect, faithless electors and either vote for clinton or for somebody else, it would just be -- well not if they would for clinton, but let's say it was a tie and nobody got 270 and it was thrown into the house. each state delegation gets one vote. let's put up where the count stands. in the new congress 32 states have gop majority and 17 have democratic majority and one state that is split down the middle, wouldn't donald trump just win in the house. >> a republican movement in the house. there is no expectation that an elector that deserts donald trump will vote for clinton. and i disagree with my friend clay about the legitimacy of the trump election in the sense that if we have clear evidence that paul manafort and general flynn and the last press conference in july and he turned to the camera and said, hey, russians, go hack hillary's e-mails, there is enough to see the intelligence reports an let them make the decision. >> and you haven't seen any evidence. >> i haven't seen the intelligence reports. but certainly -- >> one

have rules binding electors.hments however are misdemeanors and carrying fines up to $1,000 and despite the heightened passions of 2016, new york university law professor richard bill pildris says don't expect it come monday. >> a hundred go one way and occasions or so in america history that is the case but never to the point it's been systemic enough to change the outcome. >> reporter: mr. trump would need to lose 37 electors to swing this election and while that is highly doubtful, if it even were to happen, the elect would head to the house of representatives where republicans are in control. julianna goldman, cbs news, washington. >>> coming up after your local news on "cbs this morning," holiday shoppers, beware of counterfit goods. how authorities are trying to track fake merchandise. >>> plus a physical education teacher who got her students much-needed sneakers. and anthony mason starts with kennedy center honoree mavis staples. >> reporter: when did you realize you had something special? easement i real

the whole two-step electoral college process was to make sure our electors were making the decisionsf wise men and women. >> but that was done back in the 1700s when the communication and what the voters knew and what the electors knew was so hugely different. what you're in effect calling for is overturning the will of 130 million people who followed this election, who heard the allegations of the russian hacking, who saw the fruits of it, and know as much as you do. >> exactly the opposite. donald trump is only the president-elect. because there's a two-step process. if it was just the will of the american people, hillary clinton would be the president-elect. it's that two-step process that has mr. trump in the position he's in right now. so let's honor that and give them the information they need to make a good decision. >> mr. pell, i want to pick up on what reince priebus said in the previous segment. isn't this really a partisan effort by democrats to either overturn the election or if you can't overturn it, to call into question trump's legitimacy as the president. >> absolute

we have electors receiving 200,000 e-mails. nothing is going to change. to that on the electors. i'm asking you a simple question. does the president-elect accept the consensus, and that's what john brennan said it was, the consensus about the intel community's assessment on russian interference. >> i think he would accept the conclusion if these intelligence professionals would get together, put out a report, show the american people that they're actually on the same page as opposed to third parties through the "washington post." >> john brennan issued a statement. >> we haven't heard from comey. look, i think that these guys should be straight with the american people and come out and say it. i don't think they've been clear about it. i think that it's been all over the map. >> so john brennan, his statement is not enough for you? >> not when you have multiple people saying different things, coming through third parties and media reports. let's put it aside. let's assume it's true. there's that the outcome of the election was changed because of a couple dozen john podesta e-mai

trump opponents have been calling for hamilton electors to change the electoral college vote on mondaybut did the founding fathers really envision our current situation? >>> and during the campaign, donald trump called for a return to water boarding. i'll talk about enhanced interrogation with the man who helped create and implement the methods that were used after 9/11, dr. james mitchell water boarded the worst of the worst and he is here to explain. >>> but first, 538 members of the electoral college will meet in state capitals on monday to finalize the results of the presidential election, causing some americans to invoke the name of alexander hamilton almost as often as when mike pence was lectured by the cast of the hit broadway play. that's because when our new nation was first ratifying its constitution, alexander hamilton wrote a federalist paper in which he described the electoral college process. hamilton wrote that the goal was to ensure that, quote, the office of president will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an imminent degree endowed with the requisite qua

the electoral college is not broken. however the wave function is a winner take all rule is problematic for future presidential elections and has the ability to make every vote in every state matter. thank you, -- mr. chairman, coud i have five more seconds? >> how about for? >> four will do it. if i could give a personal perspective on the state of arizona where we only have 710% of our plant in private ownership. if i could repeat back could repeat that come repeat that can't arizona only has 17%. what does that mean? it means greatly reduced property tax, but also representation here in this body and representation when it comes to electoral vote. in comparison to the eastern states, the western states have a huge problem been equally curated when it comes to presidential election. thank you very much, mr. chairman. >> your point is well taken, but i notice you exceeded the time allotted by at least three seconds. thank you very much, sir. i now turn to a representative -- as state representative who worked formerly f

talking the electoral vote process in general. are you a fan of the electoral college? >> it exists for a good reason and one of the things that gets lost in all this is to talk about how the -- the popular vote, neither one of the two main candidates actually got over 50 m% because there were third-party candidates. the wye wait election results come out, spin them how you want. resources were put into the campaign. campaign were campaigning in california where numbers can go up really high one party or the other. focused on battle'sground statb. weren't listening to people on the ground in michigan and had a real problem and spent the last three days in one state trying to fix it. there are really tough questions the democrats apparently are afraid to ask thersz amselves h terrible a candidate of hillary clinton was. rejecting the policies of barack obama and instead wanted to find every excuse to blame people, calm the republicans racists, say it's the russians. get the electoral college to change the vote. so it's a real problem for democrats moving forward that the

keep or replace the electoral college. >> replace it. weren't we taught in school this is dem oingcy and majority wins? >> we were taught that. and then when you really get into nuts and bolts smoomz you scratch head isn't that right sdl that's exactly right. >> what is your name. >> jeff. >> thank you so m >> and there you have it we've talked about electoral college versus popular vote. for sometime helen brought up a good point you're going to vok focus on popular states. they focus on swing states. ultimately it doesn't sound like either system is perfect but we always like to hear from you. do you think we should keep electoral college and replace with popular vote use tweet fweet we're sending it back to you. >> thank you very much, ronica. i want to point out with we talk about this something that's interesting i know a lot of young people millennials who did not necessarily agree with the way the election went and they thought my vote did not matter because maybe they voted for hillary clinton or bernie sanders and in the end it

but lost in the electoral college. the electoral college seems to be getting more disconnected from the popular vote. we didn't have to worry about it for 112 years and suddenly twice in 16 years and 2.5 million vote difference we are getting dangerously less democratic with a small d. it is time we got rid of the distorting influence of the electoral college on the popular will. some proponents of the electoral college argue that it is necessary to protect smaller states by giving them an outsized influence. however, the small states already protected inso far as they need protection by having outside influence in the united states senate. by each state guaranteed two votes. wyoming was 600,000 people has the same two senators as california with i think 39 -- i don't know, 25, whatever, how many million. there are 53 seats, probably about 35 million people. and they don't need extra protection in the electoral college as well. in addition, the difference between the population of the small states and the large states

electoral college is not broken. however the way it functions with nearly every state using winner-take-all rules is problematic. for future elections the states, not congress, have the ability to make every vote in every state matter. and thank you. mr. chairman, could i have just five more seconds? >> how about four? >> four will do it. if i can give a personal perspective on the state of arizona where we only have 17% of our land in private ownership. if i can repeat that. compared to the eastern states, arizona only has 17% of our land. so what does that mean. it means greatly reduced property tax, but also representation here in this body and representation when it comes to electoral votes, so in comparison to the eastern states, the western states have a huge problem being equally treated when it comes to presidential elections, and it comes to just educating our kids. thank you very much, mr. chairman. >> your point is well taken. but i notice you exceeded the time allotted by at least three seconds. thank you

so-called faithless electors. the filmmaker michael moore has offered to pay the fines of any electors who break ranks and vote against donald trump. trump needs to secure 270 elector votes to take office. he lost the popular vote by up -- by 2.9 million. we'll have more on the meeting of the electoral college later in the broadcast. today's electoral college meeting comes as president obama has publicly accused russian president vladimir putin of meddling in the u.s. election. pres. obama: not much happens in russia without vladimir putin. pretty hierarchical operation. last i checked, there is not a and democratic deliberation, particularly when it comes to policies directed at the united states. we have said, and i will confirm, that this happened at the highest levels of the russian government. and i will let you make that determination as to whether there are high-level russian officials who go off rogue and decide to tamper with the u.s. electition process without vladimir putin knowing about it. amy: that w

electors. right now, president-elect trump is projected to have 306 electoral votes. 270 are needed to win. i want to focus first tonight on senator mccain's push for a select committee to investigate the russian hacks. this call bipartisan. republican senator lindsey graham, as well as chuck schumer and reed all calling for this. politics reporter for the daily beast and jeffrey lord, trump supporter, and former mayor of philadelphia and a hillary clinton supporter. thank you all for being here. >> hello, poppy. >> hello. good sunday evening to you. you're always chipper. i love it. let me begin with you, jeffrey. president-elect trump is not one of the voices in this bipartisan group of senior senators who are calling for this investigation. instead, as you know, he questioned the voracity of u.s. intelligence on the russian hack of the electoral process. to date, he's not tweeted or said a negative thing about president putin or the hacking. the last time he had a press conference, more than

amy: how did you become an elector in the electoral college, christine? >> as you know, there are different rules in different states. in california, we get appointed by our local members of congress and by our senators. i chair the caliphate democratic party women's caucus and i was thoroughly convinced this would be my opportunity to cast a vote for the first woman president of the united states. i petition my congresswoman and said, you know, i have never asked to be an elector. this is a wonderful honor, but i would like to have this opportunity, so i asked and i was appointed. amy: you are representing california, which voted for hillary clinton. so why would this make a difference to you, this briefing? >> i would like to know the truth before i cast my vote. i'm a former prosecutor, amy. there used to be a closing argument in san francisco that when something like "you could go race onto the field at the giants ballpark and knock over the picture in front of 50,000 fans and millions of people watching on tv. you know what? you still get to go to co

we're suggesting to those people who are electors, republican electors that they should have the right if they have a view that is the contrary to the decision that is made by the electate that they do what is available to them to vote their conscience. john kasich, for example -- i'm sorry governor kasich for example, would be the choice that seems to me of a great many of them had they been able to make that choice and because there are concerns, i think across the board whether democrat or republican, there are concerns about the advisability of having a president trump and those concerns grow by the day as we see the appointments he's making, as we see the fact that he doesn't yet release the tax statements -- tax records that he claims he would. there are just any number of things that are happening that are raising people's questions and it seems to me that the electoral college has an opportunity, the court of last resort to say this may not be the right choice and leave it up to the house of representatives. >> i understand what you're saying. the problem is and perhaps governo

it comes to the electoral college. the congress, of course, you know, i have heard some comments today about just the system in general, you know, the electoral college, from my understanding comes from an english tradition, it wasn't something that the framers of our constitution nilly willy came up with. you had different aspects of our constitution were borrowed from other countries and other forms of government to see if they made sense. and you know, when comment -- i'm not trying to be you know, judgmental or anything, but you know, if congress -- you voice some concerns about, you know, the way that the electoral college behaves and works and whether it might be disenfranchising, well, it's been around a long time, so you think about our history as a nation, congress could have mustered up the two-thirds to pass the amendment at any time at any point and especially after the civil war, if the electoral college and that system of selecting a president was deemed to be somehow biased. certainly after the civil war

one is this faceless electoral.er we are to score by winning states or popular vote. elector or can be talked about independently. i have been a little disturbed about the fixation on a mathematical curiosity that you could win the electoral vote and lose the popular vote. of course, if it is close there is a good chance one will go one way and the other another. but if you have already set the rules, that ought to be what you are considering. you could win the world series and lose the first three games 41-zero win the next and the scores now 30-4. you can still win the world series and nobody thinks there is anything curious about that because you won four games. i think, rather than being fixated on the mathematical curiosity that you could win one in louisiana, we are to look at what would happen if you went to a straight popular vote and how that would change things and whether or not that would be good or bad. one of the things i would be pointing out that would not be a good thing is trying to do a national r