for whichever candidate wins the national popular vote even if the candidate lost the state's electoral college vote those nine states that have passed national popular vote laws including california maryland and illinois account for one hundred thirty two electoral votes among them but half of the two hundred seventy needed in the electoral college to win the white house so if this trend continues and enough states sign up to bring their combined electoral college votes to two hundred seventy and the electoral college which republicans are currently trying to rig guys just like that. this should be the game plan moving forward average working people in america are the majority not the billionaires in the republican toadies and it's up to us to aggressively push back against this corrupt conservative minority is trying to rig the game go to national popular vote dot com. and that's the way it is tonight thursday january twenty fourth two thousand and thirteen for more information in the stories we covered visit our websites of thom hartmann dot com free speech dot org and r t dot com and if you

vote winner in that state which is how we do it right now in every state in republicans want electoral college votes in a small number of states just in some states to be doled out based on who won each congressional district plus two votes going to the popular vote winner of course those congressional districts in several traditionally blue states like pennsylvania wisconsin ohio and michigan were drawn by newly elected republican state legislatures after the two thousand and ten census and they were drawn in a way that gives republicans an advantage by carving up democratic strongholds and creating safe republican seats and safe democratic seats but known seats basically locks it up that's the republicans kept control of the house of representatives in two thousand and twelve despite the fact that house democrats won a million and a half more votes nationwide than house republicans for example last november president obama won the popular vote in wisconsin and that's received all ten of wisconsin's ten electoral college votes he won the majority the vote in the state the whole state went for

big talker today about the fact that there could be changes coming when -- the makeup of the electoral college system, specifically in virginia. now, we want to show everybody that the states proposing and considering these changes, virginia, ohio, michigan and pennsylvania. now, there is a key republican who opposes the electoral vote change. it's virginia state senator ralph smith telling the "roanoke times" he opposed the changes. calling it a bad idea. michael, is this the wrong approach? if the gop is trying to rebrand itself with big ideas and include people, getting the moniker or the label of being the underhanded people that are going to change the rules is not how they want to start the rebranding. >> i think the romney campaign suffered in the recent election because there's a perception of many that the minority vote is being suppressed by the rule changes that were being put in to place in states like florida. we saw the long lines and scaled back the hours for voting and if this is perceived like that was, then it's a big net negative for the gop and one other thing, if this is s

president obama won by four points in a large margin in the electoral college. this is what happens under the republicans' everywhere strategy. president obama still wins by four points, but loses the presidency in an electoral landslide. as long as this plan is out there, republicans will continue to downplay it. >> i would not be for it. i don't think there is any sort of national movement. and you have sort of convinced me that in virginia, there may not even be any state movement. it may be an isolated legislator. >> sure. it was just an isolated legislator. yesterday it was this isolated legislator, senator bill carrico from virginia. today it was this isolated legislator, and that would be representative peter lund of michigan. now michigan is in the picture. lund is set to introduce a similar rigging bill in michigan's legislature. michigan speaker jase bolger said today he is open to pursuing the strategy in his state. the fight to protect our democratic process, my friends, is far from over. and i know it's only january of 2013, and we're a long way from

charlie a lot of people say that rigging the electoral college like this is never going to happen, but unions can be gutted is anything possible with these guys? should we be paying more attention to these republican-lead state houses even if the virginia governor said he was not necessarily on board with the plan. >> the electoral college is really a safety school. it's someplace you go when you can't get into a regular college. [ laughter ] >> jennifer: and we should get rid of it in my humble opinion. >> there is no question about that. but bob mcdonald saying he is not going to approve of the plan is not bob mcdonald not signing it when it gets to his desk. because the electoral college is this misbegotten acronym it is perfectly within their right to do this. >> jennifer: well in fact joy there is some hope florida's house speaker, will weatherford hold the "miami herald" . . . joy, i mean isn't this -- isn't he right? first of all, don't you think this is just a signal by the republicans that they can't win the popular vote, and they are so afraid that they are got to rig the sys

days after the election paul ryan saw a problem with the system. >> there's always an electoral college strategy in winning these things. and you know what states you need to win to get to 270 electoral votes. and when we watch the -- look at the map here, virginia and ohio coming in, and those ones coming in as tight as they were and then looking like we were going to lose them, that was when it game pretty clear to us we weren't going to win. >> paying attention now? now republicans have a new electoral strategy. win as many electoral votes as you can, even if you lose by a very large margin. rnc chair reince priebus announced his intention to pursue the virginia model nationally. and it would have quite an effect. this is the result of the 2012 presidential election. barack obama won 332 electoral votes, beating mitt romney's 206 votes. in the popular vote president obama won 51% to 47%. if every electoral vote is tied to congressional delegations, romney would have defeated president obama by 14 electoral votes, even though president obama still wins the popular vote by 4 percentage

let's talk about this electoral college game.rest of our lives, we elect by state. there were a collection of 50 states. republicans, conservatives, especially believe in statehood as the key to the federal system we have. now republicans are coming up saying don't do it by state anymore, do it by congressional district. what's your thinking on that? is it going anywhere, robert? >> i think it is going march. look at states like maine and nebraska, they already have this congressional allocation for electoral college votes. but here's the problem. a lot of republicans are already getting a lot of heat for trying to meddle with this system. but in 2000, early 2000s when al gore won the popular vote there were people talking about rethinking the electoral college. this is not some scandal to think about the electoral college. >> your thoughts, steve. i think it's a scandal. but your thoughts. >> i think it's a scandal, too. and i think the republicans who go near it will get singed. toes republican governors who are thinking about

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what's interesting is more democrats want to change the electoral college, get rid of it.se a lot of people feel as though it's outdated. it has outlived its original purpose and it is at base, inherently undemocratic to give the big swing states all this disproportionate influence? >> let me say when the president takes the oath of office tomorrow for the 57th time in our history, making america the continuing record for the longest, oldest government on the planet, i don't think you can overemphasize the significance of that being the electoral college. when our founders put in in order to be president, every president has to carry at least half of the country. and that changes everything. they're going to go for the sixth government in the last 15 years on tuesday in israel. when there was a special election in california a few years ago, 135 people applied because the parties were not involved in that special election. under our system, the electoral college means that whoever takes that oath of office, has carried half of the country and i believe that that is the maj

except for maine and nebraska, if you win, i.e., one vote, you get winner take all of all the electoral collegeotes. in virginia, for instance, obama won by about 140,000 votes. and he got all 13 electoral votes. the republican senate and house, the republicans there, it's tied in the state senate, want to divide the electoral college vote by the -- by congressional districts. if you win a congressional district, then you get an electoral college vote. if that had occurred this time, the president would have gotten four electoral votes, and mitt romney would have gotten nine. and republicans control state legislatures and governors in a lot of states. what they think is because of the changing demographics, this is what they want to do. and governor mcdonald -- >> a lot to about, about making a change. >> governor mcdonald says, no, he will not approve this. and so it probably will not happen in virginia. but nationally, you have to watch particular states. for instance, in pennsylvania they want to do it by just what the state wide vote is. so each party is trying to angle for their greatest a

they will not change electoral college scheme in ohio virginia governor bob mcdonald oppose it florida speaker will weather per virginia's attorney general ken cuccinelli so is this effort dead and richard what does it say that republicans are even considering trying to do this i hope it's dead and i'm hoping for good reason because i think it's wrong for our country it's wrong for democracy and it's wrong for the constitution the country is pretty clear about how the electoral college works and how federalism works but beyond that i think that the republicans who are willing to do this are shows what they're willing to do the way and they will they will subjugate and suppress and find every way possible against me the republicans are trying to suppress my right what i would have to i don't have to come back to twenty twelve election proved it is most effective but i wonder why do you all of us who's going to fight everyone and what are you going to every sentence in ninety eight of african-americans don't have a voter i.d. laws on your side you know the product that's how they live wh

they're calling for change to the electoral college. a change that if it were in place last november this probably would not have happened. then a little bit later after the unique look at what's happening in the remote areas of our world and what all of that means for us. first, though. senator tom harkin from iowa saying today he will not be running for a sixth term in 2014. the 73-year-old saying, quote, it's just time to step aside. harkin has become a leading liberal voice in the senate. he was also a key backer of president obama's 2010 health care bill. president obama meanwhile and outgoing secretary of state hillary clinton have given their first ever joint television interview. it airs tomorrow night on "60 minutes." the president in that interview thanked secretary clinton for her hard work. >> i think hillary will go down as one of the finest secretaries of state we've had. it has been a great collaboration over the last four years. i'm going to miss her. >> a few years ago it would have been seen as improbable because we ha

it means even though barack obama won by nearly five million votes and carried the electoral college2 to 206, if the republican plan was in place, he would have lost to romney 262 to 276. what do you think would happen? let me ask you. how active is the naacp, mr. shelton, in fighting this? are you in the courts in this? are you out in the legislatures? how hot are you getting on this thing? >> primarily in the legislatures right now. our state conferences and virginia and other places have introduced these measures and are very actively engaged. we've seen what happens when you redistrict, when you reapportion after the census. we know the games that are played in what is probably the most highly partisan process that we have in our political system. now take that and use that to determine how indeed we're actually going to elect our president. what we have in that case is yet another undercut of the integrity of our system that is so important. >> and that right there just ramifies the whole thing there is enough crap going on at the state level without making ate national problem.

president obama all of the state's twenty electoral college votes less developer when he won the state republicans wanted votes handed out based on which congressional districts were won by each candidate why because they gerrymander the congressional districts in two thousand and ten under this scheme mitt romney would have actually won thirteen of the twenty electoral college votes bits of ania despite losing the statewide popular vote by four points against blatant election rigging. to make matters worse republican state lawmakers in michigan ohio and wisconsin are all considering similar changes that will make it virtually impossible for a democrat to win the white house in the near future as joe biden would say this is a b.f.d. these efforts around the country are just to secure republican political victories over the next two to four years and beyond there are also two in the opinion of conservatives save the nation from the evil natured masses they actually believe that by rigging elections to give them power they're saving america from the unwashed masses this mistrust of voter

and elections committee voted down a bill which would have changed how that state awards its electoral college votes all democrats on the committee voted against the bill as did four of eight republicans officially putting an end for the moment to the election rigging effort in that state meanwhile in michigan republicans were considering a similar vote rigging election rigging scheme governor rick snyder slammed the idea saying he doesn't think it's the appropriate time to look at. next summer he also said i'm very skeptical of the idea i really view it as a question of you don't want to change the playing field so it's an unfair advantage to someone then again it's not it was the same governor who said he wasn't interested in passing right to work for less legislation in michigan last year and then within a month or so turned right around and passed the right to work for us law anyway. but at least for now it appears the republican election rigging effort is on the whole so now is the time for progressives to get active and push for a national popular vote to make sure republicans can't get

most states are winer take all in the electoral college. look at interrupts in seven battleground states a wondering if the states should consider divided electoral college votes by congressional district. you win that district, you get an electoral veg vote. if that had been the case in 2019, republican romney would have picked up enough votes in these states to win the white house. a former michigan republican party chairman supports the idea and says a chance to ensure the population centers of the state tonight overwhelming the rest of the state. >> i think there is a lot of people who are frustrated with the current winner take all system. some form of proportionality and fair system is really attractive. >> the rnc chairman reince priebus encouraged states to take a look at the plan. >> it's a state issue. personally, i'm intrigued by it. >> political analyst larry sabato doesn't think the idea will or should go anywhere. >> under this system, if it went national, romney would have won the presidency. especially while losing the popul

it means even though barack obama carried the electoral college by 232 to 206.have lost to romney 262 to 276. what do you think would happen? how active is the naacp, mr. sheldon, funding this? how hot are you getting on this thing? >> primarily, in the legislatures right now, our state conferences that have s o introduced these are actively engaged. we know the games that are played and what is probably the most highly partisan process that we have in our political system. now take that and determine how we're going to elect our president. what we have is an undercut system that is so important. >> it just ramifies the whole thing. there's enough crap without making it a national problem. well said. when we return, let me finish with the excitement of this new collection of memorabilia from the life of jack kennedy. i know all about this stuff. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. with the spark cash card from capital one, sven gets great rewards for his small business! how does this thing work? oh, i like it! [ garth ] sven's small business earn

gop officials in key states are taking a stand against rigging the electoral college system in favorpublicans. rick snyder says he's against any scheme that would split votes. and in ohio there are no plans to push the plan in the buckeye state. earlier this week virginia's governor and attorney general said they were against the idea. and florida officials nixed it. that leaves pennsylvania and wisconsin where both governors have yet to rule out tinkering with the electoral vote. we'll be right back. >>> we're back. it could soon be the beginning of a new era for the boy scouts of america. the group's board will decide next week whether to allow gay scouts and scout leaders among their ranks reversing their long-held ban. my guest tonight james dale took on the scouts in a case that went to the supreme court which in 2000 decided the boy scouts were allowed to refuse gays including dale himself. also with me tonight nbc's pete williams who broke this story earlier this week. welcome to both of you. pete, what's the latest? is this is a done deal? >> seems like it. people we talk to

, and permit proportional voting by the electoral college, which would have, if it were done nationally, had mitt romney taking the oath of office on monday even though he would have had 276 electoral votes according to one computation even though he lost the popular vote by -- fully by four poens. are these kind of gaming of the systems, these maneuvers smart? >> i think you'll see the party in a much different direction talking to folks on capitol hill. marco rubio talking about immigration reform. i think they want to get a deal on that, the republicans do. it will be interesting. i think the budget wars will be telling because this is still a huge fight over the role of government, over how much government safety net should be kept versus not. this is the battle that the president wants to have, and whether it's paul ryan or other potential candidates in 2016, you know, that's where a lot is going to be decided many terms of this coalition politics that they want to play in a presidential race. >> paul ryan's moves in williamsburg even before these winter meetings telling

for a permanent republican advantage at the state level to also dispute virginia's electoral college votes when it comes to voting for president. today a virginia subcommittee sent a bill to that effect to the full committee, and in that full committee, a 10-5 republican majority appears poised to send the bill to the full senate, which, again, is evenly divided. and where if it is a 20-20 tie, because they vote on a day that everybody is there, then this is the guy who will get to decide the tie, republican lieutenant governor bill bolling. he will get to break the tie in the event of a 20-20 vote. and he, the tiebreaker was the statewide chair of the mitt romney for president campaign. he will get to break the tie. if the system virginia republicans are pushing now had been in place in 2012, barack obama would still have received 150,000 more votes than mitt romney in 2012 in virginia, but the electoral college vote from virginia would have been four votes for barack obama and nine votes for mitt romney. i wonder why they want to make that change? the action today in virginia is th