elena fomina elena is the head of a very interesting department. i'm afraid to make a mistake name, how right and beautiful. this very beautiful name is called physiology, the gravitational stability of man. you work at the institute of megabiotic problems. we are trying to prepare for long-distance flights to understand how to resist weightlessness and, accordingly, why the gravitational stability of a person is called, because , for example, one laboratory is engaged in weightlessness is the laboratories where i work and more in addition, there is a laboratory that deals with artificial gravity, that is, there are laboratories that deal with what is happening on earth, practically we see it from very strong gravity to weightlessness all this one here we trace the spectrum. well, you have been working for more than 15 years, uh, in mbp. eh, you are directly involved with us astronauts, so we can say that all the astronauts who were on the iss and all are fine. you know, over all spent their experiments that were, which are now being carried out. well, of course there are, which will be in the future. tell us, please, how did you get them bp, because i know that before that you were the dean of the institute. and what prompted you to do astronautics, probably all from childhood. everything is even further than the dean. at all. i spent all my childhood on e, tselkovskoye street, i stood at home on tselkovskoye street, it turns out that when? there was also a little girl. the first thing i had to remember. this adress. uh, you live on tsiolkovsky street naturally. my parents told me who tsiolkovsky is, and uh, then really. i already worked at the university faculty, called recreation rehabilitation. we dealt with highly qualified athletes. they determined what psycho-physiological profile the sports elite should have in order for him to perform well later in order to become a champion at the olympic games and how to select him. at first i worked with the best people in terms of sports. well, yes. i think it's professional burnout. i just didn't care anymore. yes, i have achieved something. e hmm yes , i'm the dean. i know how to prepare students. e, how when to lead already on a diploma, well , she taught physiology, physiology of sports, psychophysiology, well, at some point it already becomes uninteresting. want something new. and so, well, that's how life happened. so life turned around, so i came to the institute. and i think that now i 'm working with the human elite again, that is, your job in your department is that, uh, firstly, you monitor our physical state. that is, since we are involved in sports, we go through certain tests on board before the flight. that is, you are squeezing out of us, how can we run on a treadmill, i don’t know how to spin a bicycle , lift weights, then follow us. e during the entire flight and draw conclusions when we arrive, when you are already taking the test incorrectly, you understand the second e, i think the most significant of the most significant is, of course, a space experiment. yes, exactly which are carried out on astronauts. tell us what kind of experiments were. maybe the most interesting ones that are going on right now. well , maybe you can tell something about the future, the best thing is we will start with you the experiments in which you participated. this is prevention. we have three main assets. this is a track. which are considered the main e in the russian system of prevention, this is a velargometer and a power simulator. i must say that the emphasis of our partners on the power simulator. they work out every day on the weight machine. we believe that the most important thing is the track, because i always say, then half moon on mars, you have to walk, and you have to keep your ability to move, uh, and keep the vertical position of the body, so they also practice every day on the treadmill, they have velotr every day, uh, every day ait, and then they alternate the track and organs for 1 hour, this is definitely a power workout and one hour, either it's a bike argometer or a treadmill. well, the meaning of all this is obvious in order to remind you what gravity is , as soon as you arrived in weightlessness you feel good there, by the way tell me how you feel weightlessness weightlessness. well, everything is up. i remember exactly the flight, the first flight, when i arrived , was not very good. first of all, we flew in a ship for two days and only then we got to the station there was a feeling of motion sickness. well, i didn’t feel sick, but here’s the motion sickness, that is , such a condition, as if you were motion sick, you feel sick. well, it doesn’t vomit, at least it was after the arrival in the first flight, but i remember exactly in the fourth field, when i flew, i didn’t have any adaptation of communication. that is, i have the feeling that i hmm got in the same environment or in general, no change. i didn't feel. that is, i immediately began to tumble and move as i wanted when i got to the station. well, first of all, they flew. we are much faster than 3 hours. secondly, apparently already an organism. uh, i understood what was happening, although these internal yes physiological changes. uh, in any case , when a person falls into weightlessness , that is, in our case, gravity disappears and the body cannot. like a click to say, this is weightlessness space let's. work coco no, he continues the same organism works correctly, as on earth under the influence of gravity, so there are these changes. and most importantly. this is the redistribution of blood in the body. well, i felt somehow, but it was no longer painful and not hard in any case, so this is for training and experience, he said. yes, the most interesting thing is that we even made such publications, what do you need to understand here? for example, if we are going to send to mars , we need to send a person for whom the already weightless familiar experience of adaptation is precisely or uh, take a person who has never flown before and send him, but i still think that you need to take a person who is familiar with weightlessness, firstly, he will enter you more easily and most likely that and readaptation, probably to land was easier. it was easier for you to recover after the next flight. yes , after the fourth also returned. i almost didn't feel any problems when i wasn't moving. well, i also think that it's even more important how we get there. that is, when you hit new gravity conditions. here they met you under a white hand, and we will rehabilitate you here. and there it means that how easy it is to adapt to weightlessness, respectively, it will be easier to go through and readaptation to the conditions of gravity already. well, there is the martian lunar one. therefore, i still think that there is scientific evidence for this, that it is necessary to take a more experienced, astronaut , organism, which already knows how to adjust weights to them, and how to return later in gravity. well , to make us feel good. e weightlessness. we have a lot of trainers. uh, we are rotated in the center of the fugues on chairs and so on. here are our partners somehow from this. eh, well, not that they moved away. i think, well, maybe at the dawn of astronautics. they were doing it. now they have more, of course, the emphasis is on tablets. that is, they have the ecology in the first place. that's where is the line, what is better or to combine, for example, i think that you yourself found it. answer it is better to combine to eat a pill is always easier. but if the body is included in its reserves, and you are going well, there is no need to interfere. we have such a finely built system, so let it be in the first aid kit if you drank really badly, and that’s all. and if the body has turned on its mechanisms, then there is no need to interfere with it. we are talking about getting used to, but to weightlessness, and then there is a long flight, how not to forget gravity , what methods do you have. and what do you use when an astronaut is aboard the iss by far, of course, we only have our physical training here, mainly for future flights. uh, as tsiolkovsky said, there will probably still be an artificial force gravity centrifuge, but for now. we don't have it. and in general, we can say that we are quite good at preventive measures, taking into account the fact that valery polyakov flew 438 days. it can be said that the flight is already to mars, yes , it turns out that we have a power simulator track and a velargometer, in this way we remind the body. what is gravity? how will he come back? how will you have to move again in the conditions of the earth. yes lapwing about dnt workouts. now it's just a very interesting topic for me. now it will be short flight. i want in this short flight. uh, use lapwing use dnt training has never been done before, generally on short flights. hmm, there were some experiments altogether different, because they flew to me and here are extremely japanese. i didn't notice what they were doing. experiments. here they are bts them i was very glad that we succeeded. do an experiment with an arab astronaut when there was such an international project, and we were able to examine him before during the flight. he also ran on my track, and then after we are all this is a short flight. yes, now it will work out, it will fly, the belarusian girl too. i want to try adding more. uh, one in-flight practice. by the way, yes, how did you perceive the training in general, how would we expand this negative pressure to the lower half of the body. that is, these are special pants, let's call them that, in which we fly astronauts and lace up. eh, well, rubberized fabric in my place eh, yes, in the area, yes in the area of the e belt, and further , air begins to be pumped out of these pants. that is, they are sealed, and it turns out that in the lower part the negative pressure of the upper one is put. well, due to the pressure drop. he's probably starting. profit goes to the feet, that is, this is artificial gravity, it turns out correctly, as here we are on earth in an upright position, when we stand and it turns out that our circulatory system has to deal with this pressure drop, that is, it’s the same as with gravity and most importantly, well, first of all, the heart. i think it works pretty much the same. you can do less, yes indeed this is just for heart-sucker. i know that these valves that we have , oh yes, that help push blood to the upper body when we are vertical, opening, closing, that's it for the time. well, i, well, a long flight, they do not atrophy, do not die. they simply. well, i think they fall asleep. yes, they have to, uh, remember. what is it like to push this blood, and we do it about 2 weeks before planting , and increase the time before planting, and the pressure drop, in order to wake up. these uh, well valves, that are in our veins. uh, by the way , our partners are somehow skeptical about this. well, there were astronauts with me who were happy to train before landing. the fact is that they are now making their dnt suit. that is astronauts. now, in model experiments on the ground , they are again looking at the effects of dnt training. moreover, right at 6 o'clock they hold a person with negative pressure in the lower half of the body. it is proposed to make such a sleeping bag in general, so that during sleep it would be possible to do such pressure. e rarefaction, the meaning is something in what you see, when we arrive in the conditions you arrive in the condition of weightlessness. while i was on the ground, i had to raise this blood all the time against gravity , yes, it turns out that, uh, as soon as the blood went, well , in the extreme direction, we say, well , that is, uh head, uh, immediately uh, heart it is no longer necessary to work these muscle pumps like that. no need to work races trains. we have such a concept of misjudgment. i'm saying that the system of the body is made very, er, right. if it is not used, then it is not necessary, it is there is no such support, therefore we lose without it. this is because yes, about two liters or some big numbers of blood. uh, it turns out that the blood flow to the heart increases. uh, the receptors are signaling a lot of extra blood, a lot to be shed. and how to reset, well, right away, uh, the liquid leaves the body, then it was all felt. do you know how it happens? therefore, when we return, we even drink on purpose, well , soy supplements, that is, well, roughly speaking, straight salt. well made in the form of pills uh a certain time a certain amount, and as a commander, i always followed. e for everything. well, all the members of the crew, and they were both americans and ours, that is, everyone understood that we drink just salt, salt retains moisture, well, water in the body and thus it is easier for us when we find ourselves in gravity conditions. well, at least from this point of view. everything is correct. here are the targeted supplements. this development was also our institute. and now we continue to use it. we continue the conversation of fomina's universe about space experiments. what other methods are there to adapt quickly to well microgravity? well, that is, weightlessness and vice versa upon return, but we have already talked about pills. we talked about exercise machines , even remembered the salt, remembered the lapwing, especially those, uh, orange pants. what else is there? now we are trying to deal with the support unloading compensator. the point is that on purpose we didn’t make shoes like that, where the support zones of the feet are stimulated and thus we deceive the nervous system that, as if a person walks without a tin, there are shoes, yes, in which there are special insole. i had four zones. uh, special uh, pump yes, the compressor that delivers. uh, the air inflates this insole in one area or another at the same time. eh, it turns out imitated, as if that is. we, when we go we first heel toe heel toe and the same happens in these. eh, shoes. yes? the only thing i tried to turn a blind eye to imagine that the food did not work out because, well, it seems to me, because only four zones need them, of course, more to do eight 16. i don't know, of course, this is more difficult, but it would be more correct, but still to put strain gauges. well, there are sensors that can measure. with how much force we press on the support, yes and uh, just walk or run on the treadmill and the computer should remember how hard this or that part of my sole of the foot. yes and then believe then verify. if i close my eyes, will i feel, if i press on e, the lower part of the foot, and will i feel as if i am walking, that is , here, it turns out we are not driving blood. we are just send signals to our brains. yes, what is gravity we go and it will help to adapt faster or not to forget not to forget gravity is an assumption that if we do this at the initial stage of the flight, when all receptors too, well, it turns out that the vestibulars signal, which is not clear? what's happening? well, yes, it does. well, if physiologists return, yes, a person, we have the same er, if we are on earth, we close our eyes. we are well aware of whether we are vertical. yes, do we rotate to the left, we go to the right, because we have three hemisphere, yes, in different channels. yes, yes, semicircular ones also run inside these channels with a special liquid. there are uh, nerve endings and due to inertia. yes, hmm , head turns or so on, body fluid receptors, and with our eyes closed we understand that there is nothing of this in space, so the fluid just runs, but the signals continue to come and the quality. that's when you close your eyes for the first moment and how the chairs rotate in all directions, because it's just the signals going to the brain. uh, and i remember exactly the first night, but this may be the last flight. i here, maybe it wasn’t, but it was definitely the first flight right away, that is, when i went to bed on the first night. i closed my eyes and was in a bag, the zipped bag was tied to the ship's utility compartment. i closed my eyes. after some seconds there was such a feeling as if i were standing like this and my face was sharp. i'm falling i'm falling right into the floor in fear you open your eyes. right out of fear, chill ran. and you see that before you just hang in the bag, close it again and you are straight again, as if your face is straight. and so scary, of course, perhaps we somehow then we will be able to compensate for these vestibular disorders. but for the time being, we are also only trying to do this experimentally in order to reproduce these sensory inflows not only from the support receptors, but also from the vestibular. well, let's talk beauty-space experiment. yes, uh, usually an astronaut who flies for half a year plans about 50 experiments for each. yes, i remember that before the flight. you bring a special paper on which there is a list. ah, experiments. mm, there are points that you put for them. well on and on invite us to choose and sign what we want any. well, i am such a person, i understand how much was spent on me to prepare for the flight. i know how expensive the flight itself is, i understand the responsibility we have is not 1,000, there are a little more than a hundred astronauts in general in 60 years, therefore, well, piece goods. let's say. so. i understand that if you brought this paper, then each experiment does not matter how many points it takes. he is very important, so i am. well, you remember, i don't even read like that. i just signed them. right away, but then we ask, well, you still read it. well, here is such a protocol, have there been any astronauts who refuse to do certain experiments? yes, and for what reason? they do tell. i don't know, he's afraid he does no, most often a person, when he flies for the first time, e signs, but agrees to everything, then they start talking. oh well, and it seems like i already worked for science . i have such a case, i will not name who it is? yes. uh, when i talked specifically about prevention for several hours, i told what we need yet detailed. what is it, now i’ll tell you who refused them, everyone wonders why? well imagine yourself in his place. yes? what is this experiment all these simulators - it's all a means of prevention. yes, the path led the argument, too, e shoes, and it turns out that we wanted to see what would happen if, for example, we removed it. a mug, can we for 6 days, when a person does not train on the track, but he still has a power simulator, he has a velargometer turn off 1 turn off one tool and see what happens. naturally. we test a person before and after we will see how we examine e in the test on the track. that is, here you are doing a test on the track. we have a regular test known to you to him three, which run with sensors. see what the heartbeat is watching. uh, we're looking at the electrocardiogram with glue on the legs. it means how they work correctly, how muscles work, how the heart works, and plus you put on a mask , we analyze the composition of the inhaled inhaled air, because when a person, here we are now we are sitting with you - these are the so-called aerobic mechanisms of energy supply. it's all easy. we just get oxygen is oxygen. we use it as a source. well , in order to restore our energy resources. and when you run and run faster and faster, uh, the body turns on other so -called anaerobic mechanisms. we are already starting. there is no oxygen there. there, there is no time to split your reserves and somehow provide you with energy. at this time , the composition of the exhaled air changes. that's why you ran in a mask, because we it is important at what point this number will increase. well, yes, and in addition , the level of lactic acid in the blood changes. why would you do a test for e, well, for lactate levels , because just how much you went into these anaerobic mechanisms, the more lactate you accumulated and, accordingly, we can say that e in weightless conditions. by the way, what results did we get from prevention and because you run here in m-m in active mode even when you run, 15. mode on the treadmill, that is, when the treadmill itself runs works with motor. well, yes, because we have two active modes and thanks, the active track itself runs. we, roughly speaking, accompany her yes, running, well, as usual, uh, fitness. e hall. but, uh, passively. this is when the treadmill is standing and we need to push it with the efforts of our legs. yes, and i just wanted to say that there is one astronaut who ran throughout the entire flight. only on monday it must be said that this is an astronaut who used to fly on the world. and he says i know it works. it definitely works. and i'll be better than myself i will train like this. and it's probably already me . well, i'll come later, so here are the results of the prevention experiment such that we still need to include a passive mode in the test. that is, now we have even worked out a new one on the ground. uh, new test protocol. for us, now the main thing is to take tests for long-distance flights, because uh, when we u assume that we will be on the surface of mars, for example, yes, we must land during the flight. e, evaluate performance and predict whether this crew member is ready to the exit and what should be corrected? eh, do we need to eh, i don’t know how to change the training, or maybe even choose from the crew members. this one can go to mars. and this one . better let him stay in the ship, because , uh, as it is now, according to modern scenarios, it is very important. as far as hmm these first hours are the first hours you get. well, the person will go to the surface. mars, to what extent he will have a level of efficiency, to what extent he will be able to perform all these workers. walkie-talkies are therefore from a banal landing. yes this lander, which will need to be controlled by someone. yes, i think that the exit to the surface will begin to work as soon as possible. yes, there must be some kind of batteries included. all this was discussed, that this is literally a matter of the first hours. that is why we are now a constellation and are doing an experiment. what kind of experiment is this a constellation experiment, which was generally conceived even uh, even then krikalev was. e, head of the center and boris ivanovich kryuchkov with him and boris on hand. that is, it turns out two astronauts and scientists came up with this one experiment in a spacesuit with a sign, we are doing lunar and martian. well now understandable lunar. it is mainly suspended and due to the suspension, gravity is done yes, and we look at the work operations that you can perform. uh, right after the flight. that is the astronaut. after half a year of flight, arriving literally there the next day. yes, the suit comes in and starts doing this experiment. plus, there is also a centrifuge, that is, they drive him under the front ones . yes, they check how he reacts . yes and the next stage is a helicopter flight , namely a landing. and in general, i think it's very interesting for us and they do too. they have. m-m such an experiment, leaving the capsule, well, they have a capsule. it’s just that they are building such a structure, as if it were a mock-up capsule, and based on these experiments, they also determine what strength a person should have in order to be able to perform a work operation, but now i was in houston, they didn’t bring this structure. i, naturally. i want to try. well what do they have everything fell apart, even under me everything fell apart. well, they will probably refine it, but i think that we have made it more interesting, because we have it all right somehow. yes, of course it's not easy. well, i understand. hmm , the need for such an experiment, it is the future , yes, so we, of course, do it very important that we have, uh, petya dubrov did all this, uh, after a six-month flight. i flew over you for a year, and it was the first flight of a dream, in fact, it was everything. well, i would say we didn't really know. uh, how can he or not. for me. it was full delight that after a year he completed everything that he completed and the constellation, and he completed the prophylaxis in a week. consider, after a year's flight, a person ran 15 km / h along the track. i think that this is the best indicator that we are doing well, that you really observed correctly and gave good recommendations to him. we continue the conversation about the experiment that cosmonauts selena fomina is putting on us. and at what stage do you connect to the cosmonaut during his training, first, uh, the training center selected you, and is preparing you, then at some point specialists from the institute come to carry out tests. here, in particular, the tests inside, which are regular, even. if there is no experiment, we still conduct this test in order to evaluate the performance of the race on the treadmill during the flight. yes, watch for 11 minutes. uh, like our body. yes, already a representative of the system. yes, for now, of course, we are only looking at the heart, but i must say that the americans are going to ensure that gas analysis turns out to be done only in an experiment. and they already have it regular during the flight. they are on velargomed not on bike tracks they do, but they do with gas analysis. e. this is also very valuable information. it turns out that these will return to retirement. yes, after a year-long flight, he was able to complete the entire constellation plus. eh, in flight, we arranged for him in prophylaxis such a regimen that no one had done before for two weeks. he didn't run on the treadmill, he only had a bike and only a weight machine and to be honest when i reported there were people who said, no it can't be dangerous. i say, well, a one-year flight. yes, we will have time to restore it, then we will try nothing here in this sense, of course, petya well done that he agreed everything went well and in general, it turned out that we did not decrease our performance so much and it turns out that we now understand, can we flow, for example, a flight to mars, but you are tired of the same choice all the time - it ’s not so big, that is, the road is a great strength simulator. that is, it turns out that you can, well, for 10 days, for example, do not do it and you can rest during this time, and then, with pleasure, to run again on the track, but that was all, that there were some regular situations. thank god it 's not. i think that we are working to ensure that everything is regular, in general, the experiments took place regularly. well, it happens, well, you probably know yourself who we have some kind of contact there, yes, before that we repair, periodically a treadmill. and here i am zhory well, of course, the american powerhouse, he is always always in control. eh, at some point. well, if something breaks, of course they, by the way, now done. so, the protocols will be directly loaded on the power simulator, and we are fighting to ensure that it is the same for our cosmonauts, that you work in the same mode as the astronauts, so that all the protocols are automatically loaded from the ground. well, then there is a program, how do you automatically receive information. how many did and so on in time by weight and so on. well, you know, every week we write you a letter with an analysis of how it was carried out, where we freeloaded, where, on the contrary, we did a lot, but you know what a dream we have. we want here is one of the experiments that i want to do is called a virtual trainer. the point is that we will analyze how the state of the physiological systems changes in response to the load after the training influences determined there and with the help of artificial intelligence, so that this virtual trainer will give you the next training program so that you well, now we are with mathematics we will redo together analyze how they worked for 3 days and how next 3 days next how should you exercise? well, while it's at the beginning of the journey, but i hope we made it. i know that you are well from you. at least it depends on your clearance department, uh spacewalks, but before my spacewalks. i passed the tests. here, what tests and how do you conduct them? not only me, we have a lot of people there , everyone answers, because for me, shipboard activity is probably, well, such an operation that is very responsible and, of course, everyone is in it. eh, they are very sensitive about the exit. this one here a test for manual ergometry, when a person performs neither feet nor hands pedaling on a bicycle. we have to evaluate the strength of the hands, because during out-of-ship activities. you basically hold on with your hands. yes, and now it’s good that we still have a power simulator, can we? with the help of a power simulator, you can also train your hands, respectively, so that you are ready for non-penetrating activity, but this test , uh, manual velorometry, the so-called m6 , which we have a regular test, just the results of this test are the basis that we we allow, well, we sign the conclusion , permission to exit or not permission, but in my practice it has never happened to a single astronaut. so, according to the results of the test , they said, we still need to practice. and one more test to give it. it happened, but it never happened in such a way that someone would endure the exit, thank god, we are all fine with our cosmos. ah. i had to work, uh, with american astronauts. yes, i even have my first uh, uh, let's say the first time. i went to zvezdnaya. it was gena the scavenger and michael. that is, it turns out that i i saw both the astronauts and the astronaut at once. and the two of them, then. i was going to fly, but also about ino. strantsev, and i remember what i said when i was in japan and met with your brother, it turns out space brother. yes, she came to japan, he says, you know anton our drop, i know he is my brother, so you are my sister. clearly, you and i are related. now we are making a move towards our new russian orbital station growing. uh, naturally, experiments are being laid that will be carried out in order to make the interior, well, i don't know, uh, the equipment it's for experiments. what kind of experiments will be at our new station? i want the simulators to be better in accordance with our level of modern technology. plus, of course, experiments. i want those same shoes. for example, i wish it wasn't just uh, walking or running. but just running, for example, on the grass or running there on a rug, so that it would be completely different sensations , you can add virtual reality so that you are erochki and viorochki and so that you don’t just run and watch a movie, so that it seems to you that you are running, for example, through your park through some city that you have yes, yes, well, now there are such ideas and anyway, of course, there will also be experiments on prevention, but there is something else special we're getting close. in general, to what will happen in interplanetary flights, and this is the scientific value of such a station, that it will be in it differently than iss a through e orbit through the poles. well, let's imagine, lena, what a person will do in 50 years in space. i'm generally the kind of person that i actually think that the moon will be already mastered by this time there will be space settlements there at this time. i think that they will start from the moon already and further, uh, ships towards mars or maybe they will still find life somewhere and it will turn out that not only mars but even further we have even now, next year there will be . such a symposium is called, at which i conceived a section e, an interdisciplinary one, i invited physicists , i invited architects so that we could look from all sides, it turns out that biologists will have their say. uh, the doctors will say theirs , architects should think about what these houses will be on the moon. um, how do we hide from the radiation? how can we live in conditions of reduced gravity, but physicists will tell us what is there in particular? there is also such a factor as a non-magnetic medium, that is, a reduced magnetic field. uh, we still have to understand how dangerous this is for humans. this is the state of the institution. now he is quite actively engaged in this, while we will study this issue. yes, unfortunately questions. this our open program has come to an end. today my guest was doctor of biological sciences professor elenability of man, an excellent specialist and i am an antonper. it was a podcast of space stories.
Live Music Archive
Librivox Free Audio
Metropolitan Museum
Cleveland Museum of Art
Internet Arcade
Console Living Room
Open Library
American Libraries
TV News
Understanding 9/11
