let's bring in maggie haberman and elie honig.ee could soon have their hands on the pence documents. could this investigation come down actually to pence's inner circle? >> it's certainly going to be a key factor, wolf. we know that mark short, pence's former chief of staff, was brought in under subpoena last week, and he spoke, i think, at length to investigators. he knows a lot. greg jacobs, the general counsel, knows a lot. there's a delicate dance they're doing with the committee, they don't want to be seen as fully embracing it. but they're not bucking subpoenas, and we know former president trump has tried to bring down the hammer on former associates. and hoping they don't cooperate. we don't know what are in the documents, but i feel like the testimony that the committee elicited from the pence team is going to be important. >> elie, how significant is it that jeffrey clark actually appeared today after being threatened with contempt? >> wolf, jerffrey clark sort of slid under the radar, but he tried to run a coup attempt

and elie honig is with us, former assistant district attorney.a agreement? >> i did hundreds upon hundreds of plea agreements in my time as a federal prosecutor, never had one rejected by a judge, never heard of that happening to any of my colleagues. here's what's unusual about this case. there's two kinds of federal plea agreements, broadly speaking. the more common type, not the type this was, the more common type is when the prosecution and the defense agree the defendant will plead guilty, the sentencing range will be between a and b, and then it's up to the judge, the judge may sentence within that range, above or below, but the judge cannot accept or reject the plea. this deal here was the less common kind where the prosecution and defense agree the sentence will be x, in this case, 30 years, but in that case, the judge has the power to accept it or reject it. the judge here rejected it. it is extremely rare to see that happen. >> and we know ahmaud arbery's family has a strong reaction to the announcement of the plea deal. how much of an

joining me now cnn senior legal analyst elie honig. they asked a lot of questions.mittee has been getting from them. but refusing to talk about discussions with the former president. what is your takeaway? >> reporter: yeah, john, that is a bad deal for the committee. if the deal is, well, you will testify marc short and other people around mike pence, however, we will let you skip over donald trump's involvement. that is the most important thing here. what was donald trump's involvement for planning january 6th and what he did on that day. i understand the committee has to deal in reality. i understand sometimes you have to negotiate. sometimes something is better than nothing at all. but in this case i think the committee is simply giving away too much ground. >> well, so, executive privilege has been litigated in terms of documents. it hasn't exactly been litigated in terms of conversations yet. so it may be that the committee doesn't feel like they have any avenue to get that stuff right now. >> reporter: it's possible. but you're right, the committee won a big

i want to bring in elie honig, a former federal and state prosecutor to help put all of this into perspective and have this conversation with you in particular because a lot of people don't necessarily realize. they're wondering, hold on. first of all, in the case of the three officers who were charged in depriving george floyd's civil rights, why was that not part of the state murder trial? why are they separate and beginning with a federal trial? what's the answer? >> yeah. so it's a good question, and it's a procedural decision. these three officers are facing both federal and state charges, but they're starting now with the federal case. and i think strategically it's smart to do that because in some respects, the theory in the federal case is broader than in the state case. in the state case, they're charged as accomplices, meaning essentially they helped derek chauvin kill george floyd. but in the federal case, they're charged under this really expansive theory that their liability is because they failed to help. they failed to intervene. they failed to render aid. in some ways, laura,

our cnn senior legal analyst elie honig and somebody who really knows trump well and that's former trumpcan be a bit confusing. talk to us about this specific case and where it's going. >> ana, big day yesterday. it's important to understand, there's really two separate investigations here happening in parallel to one another. there's a civil investigation being run by the new york state attorney general, letitia james. at the same time a criminal investigation by the manhattan da bragg and letitia james as well. and a civil suit involves lawsuits and potential money challenges. criminal involves potential indictments and imprisonment. now the dispute that was resolved yesterday is on the civil side of things. letitia james, the attorney general, sent subpoenas to donald trump, his son donald trump jr. and his daughter ivanka trump. the trumps objected and said these are improper. these are politically motivated. the attorney general said these are necessary. i have a legitimate investigation, evidence. i need to talk to them. the judge sided with the attorney general. now the trumps hav

let's bring in legal analyst elie honig, from the southern district of new york. and gloria borger, chief political analyst. floria, let me start with you. no wonder the answer about when did you speak with the president was stammering and stuttering. ten minutes there was a conversation on that day of all days, is that something that slipped your mind? what is your reaction. >> it does. it is the president of the united states, it is the morning of january 6 and how do you forget a ten-minute phone call with the president on that day of all days. you won't forget the phone call with the president under any circumstance. so his answers have been evasive as ryan said, inconsistent and the committee has a real problem. what do they do? if they subpoena him and he still said i'm not going to peer, then they have to be willing to follow up with that and they have to be willing to say we're going to hold you in con contempt and that caused a lot of problems internally in the house of representatives. so there is discussion in the committee about that. some would like t

joining me now is elie honig. legal side of thing, but these comments specifically by a federal judge and trump's civil liability for january 6th. what do they mean? >> well, in the narrowest sense, this decision keeps donald trump in the lawsuit. which means the next step here is going to be discovery where the parties exchange information. that means donald trump will likely have to sit for a deposition and answer questions under oath in this lawsuit. it's also really interesting to note that the judge threw out the claims against other people. against donald trump jr., rudy giuliani. the judge decided what the former president did was different and worse than what those people did. you just read the exact clip how the judge said it's reasonable to look at these facts and conclude donald trump issued a collective call to action. that's a really important ruling. something the committee and justice department ought to take note of. >> yeah, the former president needs to take note of it, as well as the national ar

but i wanted to get with elie honig and stewart stevens. gentlemen, good evening to you. stewart, former vice president mike pence saying former president trump is wrong, he could not overturn the election. the most direct he has been since january 6. the question is, why now? >> yeah, look, i don't think that we can be at a point where we're praising the vice president of the united states for doing his job. he took at oath of office saying he would protect the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. i don't understand is mike pence was at the middle of a conspiracy, and instead of calling the fbi, he called dan quayle. why didn't he tell people about this? he had an obligation to do it. monahan talked about defining decency down. dumbing decency down. we're dumbing democracy down. at the very least, he should have done this a long time ago. and the fact that he's out there saying it and people are acting like this is a big deal shows how far we're fallen. >> you're right. he took an oath. and i've been critical of mike pence for a lot of what he's done. b

washington correspondent, ryan lizza, and cnn senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, elie honigvening. good to see both of you. elie, i am going to start with you. this federal judge ruling trump can be sued in court for his statements to supporters at the rally before the insurrection. um, calling those statements the essence of civil conspiracy. that could reasonably be viewed as a call to action they said. this is a big deal for trump. what are the implications here? >> it is, don. so in the narrow sense, it keeps donald trump in this lawsuit. it means donald trump is in position where he is going to be subject to discovery, and possibly to deposition under oath. and interestingly, this judge actually did though out the charges or the -- the suit that's been filed against rudy giuliani, against donald trump jr. so the judge seemed to draw a distinction, and said what the former president did was different and worse than what even some other wrongdoers did. bigger picture, don, the message that the judge is sending here is what the president -- former president -- it was as yo

and senior legal analyst elie honig, a former federal prosecutor. gentlemen, hello. good evening.imes," andrew, is reporting tonight that the national archives discovered what they think is classified information in the records that trump took with him when he left the white house that have, since, been returned. now, the archives has -- the archives has reached out to the justice department for guidance. doesn't classified documents make this a lot more serious? >> well, it does, don. you're -- you're no longer talking about potentially the failure to observe the presidential records act, which is, of course, the law that requires the president and the office of the president to preserve all the president's records and it maintains that the owner of those records is essentially the american people, not the president, himself. so -- but that's basically an administrative statute. the mishandling statute, which is the one that penalizes people in government positions for taking classified information, knowingly, and bringing it to a place that's not authorized to keep it. um, that

senior legal analyst, elie honig. >> it continues to rain subpoenas from the committee.w of in total. let's start with those issued to former trump white house officials, peter navarro. trade adviser. why is he involved in elections and stuff? he got a subpoena yesterday. he was behind one of the plans to disrupt the counting of the electoral votes in college, the green bay sweep after the green bay packers. he said donald trump knew about this. and over 100 members of congress were in on this. we will see if he testifies. before him, of course, mark meadows, chief of staff, was in the first batch of subpoena recipients. he got the subpoena, started to cooperate, stopped. and then the committee held him in contempt. doj has been sitting on the mark meadows count, nobody is counting, except me, 58 days. we are waiting to hear whether doj will prosecute mark meadows. they heard testimony, six to seven hours each, from two aides, ben williamson and kayly mcenany. and ivanka trump notably did not get a subpoena. she got a polite interview request. we will see if the committe

joining us, jeffrey toobin and elie honig. jeffrey, how csignificant is it to see top advisers go to speak to the select committee? >> well, you know, wolf, this isn't a prosecution, but the committee is approaching it more or less like a prosecution. they are working from the bottom up, from the outside in. and they are finding witnesses who were one or perhaps two steps removed from the president and finding out what they know. the interesting political part of this is that even though former vice president pence is publicly loyal to the former president, his staff doesn't seem as happy with donald trump and they are telling what they know unlike the people closest to trump. >> well, about that, what does it say that these pence aides are stepping up, doing what the trump inner circle is clearly refusing to do? >> wolf, i think it's becoming increasingly clear that the star witnesses for the committee will be these key advisers to mike pence. they were first of all in the room. they were eyewitnesses, earwitnesses, to key co

i want to tub now to cnn senior legal analyst and former-federal prosecutor elie honig, and tim o'brien, senior columnist for bloomberg opinion. he is also the author of "trump nation." gentlemen, good evening. mr. o'brien, i am going to start with you. you say it is -- it's often -- it often looks like trump is ensnared but you believe that this time, he's really -- really could be an existential crisis. explain why you think it's different this time? >> well, it's different this time, don, because he has -- um -- two deeply-resourced, sophisticated prosecutors breathing down his neck. he has juggled these kinds of accusations in the past from journalists. but journalists don't have subpoena power. journalists don't have the power of the law behind them. and -- and he's -- he's in a corner now. um, we don't know, you know, if he will stay there. we don't know if he'll end up, you know, deeply pen -- penalized in the civil case, and possibly going to jail in the criminal case. i -- i -- i don't see that as an outcome. but i don't see also that he is just going to skate through this as h

let's talk about it with cnn senior legal analyst, elie honig. maggie won't go as far as to say the motive of the flushing documents. you have some experience where this has happened in some cases. tell us. >> i have a case that brings this one very much mind. we were going to arrest a member of the mafia. the fbi knocked on the door, said fbi, open up. he didn't open up. the guy took a bunch of documents and started ripping them up and throwing them in the toilet. the fbi then let themselves in and scooped the documents, let them dry out and put them back together. i don't think that's possible here. i think the point is intent is crucial. was this an attempt to get rid of the documents for some bad reason, or was this sort of just the lazy habit or thoughtless habit? flushing things down the toilet is different, right? john, i see from your face. >> documents aren't drain-o. there is one reason to flush documents down the toilet. >> i guarantee you there are garbage cans and recycle bins all over the place. so you have to ask, why the toilet? .

joining us is team senior john avlon and elie honig, former state and federal prosecutor.ohn, mitch mcconnell went after what happened at the rnc on the substance of it, saying it's wrong. and also the politics of it, saying it's bad politics. and he didn't have to do it as forcefully as he did. how significant is this real split within the republican party? . >> there is. the cracks in the cult are showing. it wasn't just mike pence on friday. as you noted, with really precise language, about what the insurrection was. there is no secret about the loathing that exists between mitch mcconnell and donald trump. but mitch mcconnell is careful, calculated. he may be calculating donald trump is crazy, the refusal to back away from the most extreme demands of the big lie on the republican party, may be a net political negative. so you are seeing other senators step away. bill cassidy of louisiana. mitt romney is a given. but you have a half dozen senators speaking out, denouncing the rnc for this dumb decision and distancing themselves from donald trump. >> he is doing this bec

he is the former fbi deputy director and senior legal analyst, elie honig, former federal prosecutor.thanks for joining. andrew, "the new york times" reporting just two weeks after the election, lawyers for the trump campaign were laying the groundwork for the alternate-elector scheme, which ultimately became key to the strategy to overturn the election. what does this new information tell investigators? >> well, don, i think what this new information shows us is how much more complex, how much more thought -- thought out and planned this activity was than some, you know, we are clearly not dealing with just a riot on january 6th. this was a -- a -- an agreement. you could -- you could start to couch it in terms of conspiracy, potentially. that was undertaken by a number of people around the former president with the clear goal of overturning the results of the election. it's -- each one of these documents that we see sheds a hitle bit more light on exactly who was doing what. it identifies new people the committee certainly will want to talk to, and probably folks that will come acro

. >>> let's break it down with former federal and state prosecutor elie honig and presidential historian tim naftali. the other part of trump's state today on top of what we heard ryan report out is that he claims that he had no legal obligation to be turning over these documents, including some of what has since been recovered from mar-a-lago. so i'm wondering what kind of legal trouble could he be in? >> it's incorrect to say there was no legal obligation to preserve these documents. where i would start the legal analysis is with something called the presidential records act. that says presidents have to maintain and keep all presidential records. now the problem is there's no consequence for that. it's a law with no teeth. there's no remedy for it. but depending on the intent and specificity, there could be potentially criminal laws involved in two respects. first of all, if there was intentional knowing destruction of classified documents, that's a federal crime. and if the intent was, let me get these documents taken out of the way because they could look bad. they could be damning

i want to bring in elie honig, former federal prosecutor and senior legal analyst along with dana bashon" and he heard, he saw and now he's talking to the witness. >> one, it has to be a person powerful enough and well-connected enough that he was in the room when the see conversations with happening and, two, it has to be a person that has that access and power but not blindly trump loyal hand mark short may meet both of those criteria. there's a real rift forming here, it's obvious between the pence people and trump people. we now the committee has already gotten available information because general keith kellock has gotten information that the committee has quoted in his filings where he's given details about detailed conversations and the other thing is the committee has to start thinking about who their witnesses will be for the live hearings and need to figure out whether someone like mark short will tell what he saw. >> trump is still blasting pence for not overturning the election. trump is not trying to keep pence close to him if you look at that statement but even before tha

. >> i will say elie honig on another matter is suggesting the investigation going on in georgia isn't moving nearly as quickly as it could or should. but that is another matter entirely. >> yes. >> one for discussion coming up. >>> in unprecedented move, the chair of the january 6th committee, congressman ben nie tho thompson, tells cnn there is significant discussion about whether to subpoena lawmakers who refuse to voluntarily cooperate. over the last couple of months the house probe has requested voluntary cooperation fromhree of its colleagues, including kevin mccarthy, all have refused. this as trump allies who are not lawmakers, some, stone wall former justice department official jeffrey clark, pleading the 5th more than 100 times during his deposition this week. that's not exactly stone walling, per se, the right to self-incrimination is a venerable part of the constitution, though there are critics who view it differently. >> so five people take the fifth amendment, like you see on the mob, right? you see the mob takes the fifth. if you are innocent, why are you taking the fif

b but, eli ee honig, we will have plenty otime to talk about this. >>> and a boy who is trapped in anext. you are live in the cnn newsroom. lipton. stop chuggin'. start sippin'. are you one of the millions of americans who experience occasional bloating, gas or abdominal discomfort? taking align can help. align contains a quality probiotic to naturally help soothe digestive upsets 24/7. try align, the pros in digestive health. and join the align healthy gut team up and learn what millions of align users already know. how great a healthy gut can feel. sign up at alignprobiotics.com also try align dualbiotics gummies to help support digestive health. every business is on a journey. and along the ride, you'll find many challenges. ♪ your dell technologies advisor can help you find the right tech solutions. so you can stop at nothing for your customers. we're carvana, the company who invented car vending machines and buying a car 100% online. now we've created a brand-new way for you to sell your car. whether it's a year old or a few years old. we wanna buy your car. so go to carvana and