elizabeth felt elizabeth passed, we really felt that a vacuum. there that there was a vacuum. there was a void in national life, you know, someone who was actually so just of our so much a part not just of our constitution, not just part of the monarchy, but of the the monarchy, but part of the whole of country. whole totality of this country. and i think feeling we're and i think the feeling we're having probably a having now is, is probably a great sadness, sympathy great sadness, but and sympathy and say, your point and i have to say, your point earlier on about oncologists and early identification is so right. getting right. he couldn't be getting better treatment. i hope better treatment. and i hope he's going, going to the he's getting going, going to the marsden which is by marsden this time, which is by far better hospital. but you far a better hospital. but you know, we go from here know, it's where we go from here is difficult i notice is the difficult bit. i notice he appointed new equerry just he appointed a new equerry just this now i mean this week. so he's now i mean i hope there wasn't a fear of hope that there wasn't a fear of something happening, but you remember seventh remember when edward the seventh was poet laureate. was very ill? the poet laureate. >> don't remember it. >> i don't remember it. >> i don't remember it. >> alfred he was >> alfred austin. and he was asked to compose a royal rhyme and he said, uh, across the wire the electric message came. he is not better. he is much the same. yes >> um. nunziata partly there's this issue of it being public and that potentially helping people. there's then also the constitutional issue. the king has said he will carry on with his business, carry on with the audiences, with the prime minister. but the slimmed down monarchy makes it very narrow, doesn't it? the work's falling on very few shoulders. >> it does, but i think every single person in this country recognises that an unwell person needs to look after themselves first and foremost, and that is incredibly important with our monarch . i think this shows an monarch. i think this shows an immense amount of faith in the british people to allow him to take the treatment that he requires , to carry on doing his requires, to carry on doing his very serious official duties . very serious official duties. but i think it demonstrates his depth of faith that he is not a not afraid of mortality , but not afraid of mortality, but also that he is part of the 21st century. i mean, even when i was a child, you didn't refer to cancen a child, you didn't refer to cancer. it was the c word and it was a death sentence . and that was a death sentence. and that has changed. and medicine has changed. and these things can now be cured in a way that 50 years ago or longer was no hope. and i think he is demonstrating that life has moved on and that life goes on. >> well, thank you to my panel. after a short break, we'll be continuing our coverage of the latest on the king's diagnosis of cancer, and we'll be hearing from the royal biographer, angela levin and others >> you're listening to gb news radio . radio. >> welcome back. i'm jacob rees—mogg and this is state of the nation on gb news. we've been bringing you coverage of the king's diagnosis of cancer, and you've been sending in mail. mog's lily says, even though i'm an citizen, i've always an american citizen, i've always had great love the united had a great love for the united kingdom royal family. had a great love for the united kingmajesty royal family. had a great love for the united kingmajesty king royal family. had a great love for the united kingmajesty king charlesamily. had a great love for the united kingmajesty king charles andl. had a great love for the united kingmajesty king charles and all his majesty king charles and all the family be in my the family will be in my prayers. jesus over prayers. may jesus watch over you. body for he is you. heal your body for he is the great physician. bring you comfort in his loving arms, uphold your uphold you in your family through amen and through this journey. amen and i think, um, saint peregrine is the patron saint of sufferers from cancer , so perhaps his from cancer, so perhaps his intercession for intercession can be asked for two suzanne wishing his majesty the king a full positive and peaceful recovery in the days and weeks ahead, and also strength to queen camilla for her continued support and devotion her husband and to devotion to her husband and to the british people at this challenging time for the royal family. best wishes from a dedicated australian born royalist australia, royalist in sydney, australia, lucy. and country treat lucy. may god and country treat him during difficult him well during this difficult time and dave, we all wish the king well , but we don't want the king well, but we don't want the sussex the country. well all sussex in the country. well all sources have said that the duke of spoken to the king sources have said that the duke of light spoken to the king sources have said that the duke of light his spoken to the king sources have said that the duke of light his cancer to the king in light of his cancer diagnosis, is expected to diagnosis, and is expected to fly back to the united kingdom. obviously their relationship has had and in recent had its ups and downs in recent years, but this shows the importance family and reminds importance of family and reminds me, at any rate of the parable of the prodigal son, who i'm sure will be welcomed back not just king, by the just by the king, but by the nafion just by the king, but by the nation with arms when nation with open arms when he comes under these comes back under these circumstances. but who better to speak biographer of speak to than the biographer of the of sussex, angela levin the duke of sussex, angela levin 7 the duke of sussex, angela levin ? angela, as always, it's a pleasure to have you on the program. um i imagine that, uh, prince harry, the duke of sussex , will be welcomed back with open arms and that out of some bad news, something positive is coming . coming. >> well, i can't say i absolutely agree with you because it depends . if harry is because it depends. if harry is still thinking only in terms of me, me, me . still thinking only in terms of me, me, me. um. and when he's come over to london or phoned , come over to london or phoned, he's actually wanted to tell his father that he still wants him to apologise and particularly to meghan for the way she was treated and he's got so many moans that they go back to when he was quite a small child. he's got a great list and i think that it um, that would actually not be a good thing to do. i think it's good that he's coming, but he's got to come with a, with an apology, perhaps because a lot of stress can actually lead to some sort of cancen actually lead to some sort of cancer. and he should actually take responsibility for upsetting his father hugely not arrive , leave and then say, you arrive, leave and then say, you know , um, i want you to cover know, um, i want you to cover all these facts for me and apologise is. >> but isn't it a time for everyone, angela, to let bygones be bygones? that for the duke of sussex to forget all the things that he was asking for, not ideally to bring a tv crew with him, but also for us, the british people, to let bygones be bygones as he comes to support his unwell father. our sovereign, i think. >> i think the king might feel like that , but that's really not like that, but that's really not harry, you know, i spent 15 months with him and when he's got , um, months with him and when he's got, um, something he really wants to see, uh, to hold to on it, i don't think he's going to just drop it all. >> um, with meghan. let him. i don't know about that either. she's not coming with him, which is probably good news, but she's wanted to destroy the royal family and i. and i think that harry has a big mountain to climb. if he does actually see, um, become very close to his father, i don't think she will be pleased whatsoever. and he's got this rock that he's in that whether he upsets meghan or he upsets his father . upsets his father. >> so you think this is sort of half an olive branch, but not necessarily a full olive branch ? necessarily a full olive branch? >> well, i don't think you can judge it, but i think it would be very, um, unexplored acted if harry changed the way that he's behaving. not just for, you know, 10 or 15 minutes with his father, but from now on. but i don't think that will happen because meghan will not let him . because meghan will not let him. >> right. well, angela, thank you, as always for joining >> right. well, angela, thank you, as always forjoining me as a biographer of the duke of sussex, i think you have a particular insight. so i'm very grateful for your thoughts. and i'm now joined by the former butler to king charles grant, harold, who's been on the program before. grant, thank you very much for joining program before. grant, thank you very much forjoining me. i imagine the royal household can cope with anything in good health and in bad. it can look after the needs of the king. >> absolutely . thank you for on >> absolutely. thank you for on jacob. as you said, the royal household. you know, there very much professionals when it comes to this kind of thing. good news and bad news they they are a and bad news and they they are a team. obviously part of team. obviously i was part of that team. they work efficiently together. work well together. they work very well and closely with and they work closely with members of the royal family. so they'll be, you know, obviously by be to by his side. they'll be there to support uh and to help them support him. uh and to help them through the coming months. with what, treatment he's what, with the treatment he's going be receiving as well. going to be receiving as well. >> i imagine there'll >> yes. and i imagine there'll be an extra workload for them because a king who isn't well will need more care and attention than one who is. well, we'll need more things doing for him. >> absolutely. and the other thing is, the king is somebody who, you know, when it comes to health, uh, you know, he'll he'll still put his duty like his late mother did. he'll put duty ahead of that. so even though he might be obviously stepping little bit from stepping back a little bit from royal at the moment, you royal duties at the moment, you can guarantee behind the can guarantee that behind the scenes, have his scenes, he'll still have his finger this pulse. i think finger on this pulse. i think we'll probably see his son, prince take on more prince william, uh, take on more responsibility duties over responsibility and duties over the months. and obviously the coming months. and obviously with his father not being able to carry duties and also to carry out duties and also queen camilla, who's also recently shown where the king was also in hospital. you know, she's carried on with, with duties. so he's got as well as the royal household, the family are there support as are there to support him as well. there's been times in well. and there's been times in the past when members the the past when members of the royal whatever royal family, for whatever reasons, able to reasons, have not been able to carry duties and other carry out duties and other members of the royal family carry out duties and other memtdown. the royal family carry out duties and other memtdown. thethisal family carry out duties and other memtdown. thethis is family carry out duties and other memtdown. thethis is exactly stand down. so this is exactly what with the king what happened with the king at the moment. >> are you concerned that >> and are you concerned that the king will try and back >> and are you concerned that th> and are you concerned that th> and are you concerned that th> and are you concerned that th> absolutely . >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> he really is somebody >> uh, he really is somebody that does not like doing stuff . that does not like doing stuff. i lucky enough to witness i was lucky enough to witness that. i've said to many people over the years that the one thing i always admired about him was when i got up in the morning, pretty early, morning, which was pretty early, he already be up and he would already be up and about. and went to bed, about. and when i went to bed, which was quite late, dare i say, even midnight and he would still away. you know, still be working away. you know, this somebody does this is somebody who does not take duties lightly. you know, he's a worker. uh, did he's a real worker. uh, did i say a workaholic? and he's not going ill health, uh, put going to let ill health, uh, put him back. he's going to. if anything, think it will anything, i think it will make more determined to kind of carry on this is something did on and this is something i did admire about him, and i have no doubt carry on doubt that he will carry on doing even with what's doing this even with what's happening his happening just now with his health and the weight of duty, of monarchy, even when not going out performing out and performing public engagements is very considerable, the level of considerable, the sheer level of paperwork that comes in of things that need approval and consideration, the machinery of government. >> although the powers are formally exercised by the prime minister um, well advised on by the prime minister, they are still formally exercised by the king. so he has to sign all these papers for things to happen. >> absolutely . and you'll be >> absolutely. and you'll be aware of that from from the government point of view. you know, he's very much that's a big part of what the monarch does. you know, the red boxes, which are correct me if i'm wrong, but, you know, the daily and something that, and so that is something that, you know, he, again, would take very and he will not very seriously and he will not want be carry on on those want not to be carry on on those duties. so still want to duties. so he'll still want to be still be informed. he'll still i'm imagining carry on imagining he'll even carry on with his weekly audiences with the minister. don't the prime minister. i don't see him i think he'll him stopping that. i think he'll still behind the scenes. he'll carry on the duties of monarch. and said, i think and as you've said, i think people forget when they see people forget that when they see him carrying out those him in public carrying out those duties, they think that's that's him king the him being the king but the reality that reality is there's a lot that goes the scenes, goes on behind the scenes, a huge amount that people don't get to see. and that's why you always find it frustrating when people of say, oh, people used to kind of say, oh, you they kind of have it you know, they kind of have it easy and it's quite an easy life. when i was life. and, you know, when i was a youngster, used to think a youngster, i used to think it'd amazing to be a member it'd be amazing to be a member of the royal family. when you've worked there and you've actually seen that life is like and seen what that life is like and the duties and the schedules, it takes a lot for somebody to step up that. and this is up and do that. and this is something the king has done his whole life and continue to whole life and will continue to do well. >> thank you very much. grant. my >> thank you very much. grant. my still with the my panel is still with me. the former brexit mep nunziata former brexit party mep nunziata rees—mogg, the former labour mp stephen stephen stephen pound. um stephen thinking back to the early 19805, thinking back to the early 1980s, huge royal 1980s, there was a huge royal family carry out duties. the family to carry out duties. the queen mother was still alive. diana, of wales , duke diana, princess of wales, duke of princess margaret, duke of kent, of gloucester. i kent, duke of gloucester. i mean, still but mean, they're still going, but they're relatively elderly . they're now relatively elderly. yeah. michael, um, very yeah. prince michael, um, very large royal family. now it's such a small number and two of the most senior members are out of action. that is a problem, isn't it? >> well, there's less frontline royals, without a doubt. but there is a bigger back office now. much much bigger. um, clarence then then clarence house, then then actually beefed it up and they've bigger they've now got a much bigger structure but can i just structure there. but can i just say i think annunciato said something important something incredibly important earlier don't look earlier on? um, you don't look for silver lining on for a silver lining on an occasion like this because there are no linings. but what are no silver linings. but what annunciato about the annunciato said about the demystification cancer, demystification of cancer, i think unbeliev important. think it's unbeliev important. and i think one of one of the great services that his majesty is giving the nation now is actually showing that this can come of us. it can come come to all of us. it can come to majesty, it can come to the his majesty, it can come to the his majesty, it can come to us. and the way to each one of us. and the way he responds to the treatment will actually a warning for will actually be a warning for people. an example of people. and also an example of how address this awful illness. >> and that's quite interesting because the reverse of because it's like the reverse of what starkey was saying. what david starkey was saying. that's not the first time i've disagreed it's not disagreed entirely. it's not really disagreed entirely. it's not re different angle on the same a different angle on the same thing that it's also the demystification the monarchy, thing that it's also the demthatication the monarchy, thing that it's also the demthat you )n the monarchy, thing that it's also the demthat you used the monarchy, thing that it's also the demthat you used to; monarchy, thing that it's also the demthat you used to try onarchy, thing that it's also the demthat you used to try and chy, and that you used to try and pretend the monarchy didn't pretend that the monarchy didn't have health problems. and the, um, king might a slight um, the king might have a slight chill that was about as much as you hean chill that was about as much as you hear, and that your you would hear, and that your demystifying cancer and the monarchy . monarchy. >> possible, jacob? >> isn't that possible, jacob? because i think you've got a lot of in this country simply of people in this country simply will cancer will never believe that cancer would to them. the would happen to them. the majority people, time majority of people, every time you ask the question, all you ask the question, they all say, not to happen to say, it's not going to happen to me if i don't smoke or i do whatever now know that can whatever we now know that it can happen to anybody, and we now know that identification know that early identification leads to usually a more successful and successful form of therapy and more successful of more successful form of treatment. think that is treatment. so i think that is a great, great service to the nafion great, great service to the nation that he's actually done and doing. mean, credit and is doing. and i mean, credit to him for that, because, you know, temptation know, the temptation must be, must simply draw the must be to simply draw the curtains and try to preserve the mystery. this, you the mystery. this, you know, the smoke of the smoke and mirrors of the monarchy. think in monarchy. and i think we are in a different now, and i think a different age now, and i think this really dramatically this is really dramatically bringing it out into the public eye. >> and is this a way, a democratic monarchy has to behave that if you think of the soviet union, when the leaders of the soviet union were ill, nobody got told anything. >> we're all oral. >> we're all oral. >> well, no. well, potentially . >> well, no. well, potentially. but talking about in russia now, talking about brezhnev and all that. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> but with a democracy , we >> but with a democracy, we actually you can't hide these things away. >> you can't and you shouldn't. and we have a very effective, very powerful voice with our press that makes sure the public know what's going on. they would not want to be lying to the pubuc not want to be lying to the public sick and hiding this, even though you know the court, the people immediately around the people immediately around the king would all know that he had an illness of some sort if they didn't even know exactly which one. these things are much better aired in public. it is nothing to be ashamed of. it is nothing to be ashamed of. it is nothing that one should feel a need to hide. and the british people understand that. but to me so powerfully, your mail mocks that the power of the monarchy to spread our country and our respect around the world, the getting mail mogs from australia and america just shows how strong the institution is, and it needs our king at the head, but it will continue. >> well, thank you nunziata , and >> well, thank you nunziata, and thank you stephen. we'll be continuing our coverage of the latest on his majesty's diagnosis of cancer. and i'll be talking to two doctors about the king's condition, and they will bnng king's condition, and they will bring some of their insight and expertise to the radio show. >> welcome back . i'm jacob >> welcome back. i'm jacob rees—mogg and this is state of the nation on gb news. we've been bringing you coverage of his majesty's diagnosis of cancen his majesty's diagnosis of cancer, you've been sending cancer, and you've been sending in mogs taha says, in some mail. mogs taha says, devastated by the news today. i just express very just want to express how very grateful am his majesty's grateful i am for his majesty's existence this world. my existence in this world. my heart aches, but i'm fortunate to his majesty a sense to find in his majesty a sense of cheerfulness courage, of cheerfulness and courage, footsteps hope to footsteps in which i hope to follow day. gentleman who follow each day. a gentleman who works tirelessly for the causes he rightly believes i could he rightly believes in. i could find better hero, a proud find no better hero, a proud subject from his subject of his majesty from his commonwealth and that's from pakistan. thank you very much for those moving words . tony for those moving words. tony asksif for those moving words. tony asks if we lose the king. william becomes king and harry takes over the prince of wales rather, etc. camilla forfeits everything as she no royal everything as she has no royal blood. this correct ? but, um, blood. is this correct? but, um, i think it's treason to discuss this, but i'd better answer your question. yes . william would question. um, yes. william would become king. no harry would not become king. no harry would not become prince of wales. he would remain duke of sussex. become prince of wales. he would remain duke of sussex . a prince remain duke of sussex. a prince george would become duke of cornwall and could be created prince of wales by the king as the current prince of wales was created. but that requires something to be done. an act of decision of the sovereign, whereas the duchy of cornwall goes automatically to the heir presumptive , um camilla the presumptive, um camilla the queen. camilla would not forfeit anything like the queen mother, queen elizabethher, the queen's mother. she would remain known as queen mother. she would be go back to being called queen. queen camilla. um. and ian says jacob, what is the difference between cancer and what the palace describes as a form of cancer? uh, well , i describes as a form of cancer? uh, well, i don't describes as a form of cancer? uh, well , i don't know. describes as a form of cancer? uh, well, i don't know. um, but if the king's diagnosis remains unclear for now, he is said to be positive about his treatment. um sources have said exactly what ian reported . that he has a what ian reported. that he has a form of cancer . what ian reported. that he has a form of cancer. and what ian reported. that he has a form of cancer . and exactly what form of cancer. and exactly what thatis form of cancer. and exactly what that is remains to be seen. but i am joined now by doctor frankie jackson spence, the clinical researcher in oncology. thank you so much for joining me. i don't know if you can ans