and elizabeth holtzman, former congresswoman holtzman, if you were sitting right now on the house judiciaryttee -- we just had david jolly, former republican congressman, said they were certain to have a date certain of impeachment on trump, but also on vice president pence, also of william barr, also of mike pompeo, and say this is all happening, folks. you are invited to come down and testify. if you don't show up, you're also going to be held in contempt of congress. would you do that? would you start holding people in immediate contempt? or what would you do? what would you advise democrats to do right now? >> well, i wouldn't bring impeachment proceedings against the vice president, because that might stop prevent proceedings against the president. no republicans are going to come along if nancy pelosi's going to be the next president. so, you have to really think about that carefully. i mean, that's one of the consequences of that. one of the reasons that we were able to impeach richard nixon is that gerald ford had been picked to replace spiro agnew and was the vice president. so whe

amy: that last boys, elizabeth holtzman come the first congress member, barbara jordan.have leapt forward over half a year to the house judiciary committee and the impeachment hearings. why don't you take us through what happened in october, the saturday night massacre, the president being forced to appoint a new special prosecutor -- said everyone felt he would be covering for president nixon, leon jaworski. explain what happened next with archibald cox's staff still there doing the work. >> well, leon jaworski proved to be quite a tough guy and took his job very seriously. eventually, from a combination of political pressure and legal decisions, nixon was forced to turn over the first group of his secret tapes -- which already demonstrated enormous involvement at least in the watergate cover-up. and those tapes were then transmitted by the special prosecutor to the house judiciary committee was considering nixon's impeachment. the committee spent six months conducting its research, hearing from witnesssses, reading documents, and then opened public debate in what we ju

want to bring in former congressman elizabeth holtzman that voted to impeach nixon when she served on the house judiciary committee. author of "the case for impeaching trump." and bradley moss, he worked at the firm representing the whistle-blowers that set off the impeachment inquiry. he is not representing those whistle-blowers. liz, you and i talked a long time about this. you covered this for us. every day more stuff about what you told me about how it went in watergate starts to become more familiar, the idea of two guys with a checkered past involved funneling money not really from them to another place, starting to look murky and checkered in entirety. >> but let's step back a second. who's calling the shots here? this is the president of the united states using two guys, checkered past, now indicted for felonies. these two people were hired with the approval of the president of the united states by rudy giuliani to carry out his personal business in ukraine, which meant corruption, which meant digging up dirt on biden, manufacturing dirt on biden, and who knows what else. to s