elizabeth kekly is one figure -- elizabeth kekly was mrs. lincoln's seamstress and she wrote a memoir and she was closer to the lincolns in some ways than almost anybody in the white house. she had an absolute bird's eye view. she wrote her memoir and mrs. lincoln felt betrayed and she ended her life in a home for the -- the indigent -- the colored indigents -- i forget the name of the institution in the washington area. and also i recount the meeting between at the same time -- between frederick douglass and lincoln. it's interesting, henry lewis gates who became famous in the obama story a little later for reasons that we all know in the presidency described for me -- there was a long description of the book about his impressions of obama. and he said, look, the most radical thing about barack obama is that he's african-american. and then in a way he is a post-modern frederick douglass. and what did skip gates mean by this? he's somebody who's able to tell a story. frederick douglass had a unique capacity to tell his stories back and forth