so we've been hearing about the relationship with ellen turnin. forster reproduces dickens' will in which ellen turnin is the first person mentioned. not his ex-wife, not his children. and forster produce this is without any great show or explanation but it's his way of showing the reader this woman was the love of his life in the last 20 years. >> i want to go back to the poor. you mentioned growing up in india, where did that come from? what was it about describing and writing about the urban poor that so compelling him? >> well, what we've been saying but it's the thing he escaped. and it's the place he -- >> rose: and people want to tell their story? >> he has this that great quality of the great novelist which is that he's omnivorous. there's nothing of life that is not interesting to him. and he would plunge into these worlds, the poor world which he might have escaped from but still feared, the world of the rich industrialist, or the mill owner, any world that there is dickens wanted to push his hands in up to the elbow. >> rose: and he was