>> back to you, ellie jostad. didn't at one point she ask police to go back and look at the video footage, the surveillance video. what was it? a target or a sammal warehouse or -- >> yeah, it was a publix. she actually -- and this was after she'd already been interviewed by the police. she called them and said how come you guys haven't gone to publix? my kidnapper went to publix at one point. he should be on surveillance. and they said well, you've actually never mentioned that until now, but we'll do that. they got the surveillance tape and sure enough, she says there's him, there's the guy on the tape. >>> i'm just reading this ransom note. it goes on and on and on about, well, you can only get this amount out of this bank, but they don't care where you get the money. she goes through about starting with $7,000, that's good enough for right now, but they want $50,000. to wear a tight t-shirt when he comes to drop off the money. but it doesn't end there, does it, ellie jostad? after all of that, after all of tha

>> back to you, ellie jostad. didn't at one point she ask police to go back and look at the video footage, the surveillance he video of, what was it, a target or a sam's warehouse or -- >> yeah, it was a publix. she actually -- and this was after she'd already been interviewed by the police. she called them and said how come you guys haven't gone to publix? my kidnapper went to publix at one point. he should be on surveillance. and they said well, you've actually never mentioned that until now, but we'll do that. they got the surveillance tape and sure enough, she says there's him, there's the guy on the tape. >>> every night hln's nancy grace brings you the real drama straight from the courtroom. >> every lawyer has a different version of what they would think justice is. >> tnt mondays. "raising the bar" is all new. >> to me justice is a jury rendering a verdict that speaks the truth. >> do you trust him? because that's what this case comes down to. >> stephen bochco's "raising the bar." mondays at 10:00 on tnt.

ellie jostad, all-time low.ould rip the hand off somebody that gave a beer bottle to lucy or john david. to suck on. or a cigar for pete's sake. >> yep. well, this is another video allegedly of the heene family. in this video you see the oldest boy, bradford, then just a baby. he is propped up on a couch. richard heene is trying to pose him with a cigar, putting it in his hand, in his little mouth. you see him right there sucking on the beer bottle. >> let's go to the defense attorneys. renee rockwell, you're a defense attorney. has your client lost his mind? the more these people are out there, the more surfaces. it gets worse and worse and worse. >> talking about losing his mind, that's not going to rise to any level of a mental defense. he's got much bigger problems than this, nancy. how about little bit of conspiracy or contributing to the delinquency of a juvenile, having those children lie like he did? >> let me remind you, ms. rockwell, you're acting as the defense attorney. very quickly, we are taking yo

>> back to you, ellie jostad.k at the video footage, the surveillance video of -- what was it? a target or a sam's warehouse or -- >> yeah, it was a publix. she actually -- and this was after she'd already been interviewed by the police. she called them and said how come you guys haven't gone to publix? my kidnapper went to publix at one point. he should be on surveillance. and they said, well, you've actually never mentioned that until now, but we'll do that. they got the surveillance tape and sure enough, she says there's him, there's the guy on the tape. >> $100,000 is a lot of money. >> i know. >> $50,000 is a lot of money. now that i'm looking at it, what that might mean to me in the future. either that or you just blow his head off. >> say what? >> either that or you just blow his head off. >> sheriff's office 911 what's your emergency? >> my name is quinn gray and i was kidnapped and i'm not sure where i am right now. >> she's not with me. she called me and said she was held by gun point by three men. >> di

ellie jostad, all-time low.ould rip the hand off somebody that gave a beer bottle to lucy or john david. to suck on. or a cigar for pete's sake. >> yep. well, this is another video allegedly of the heene family. in this video you see the oldest boy, bradford, then just a baby. he is propped up on a couch. richard heene is trying to pose him with a cigar, putting it in his hand, in his little mouth. you see him right there sucking on the beer bottle. >> let's go to the defense attorneys. renee rockwell, you're the defense attorney. has your client lost his mind? the more these people are out there, the more it surfaces. it gets worse and worse and worse. >> talking about losing his mind, that's not going to rise to any level of a mental defense. he's got much bigger problems than this, nancy. how about little bit of conspiracy or contributing to the delinquency of a juvenile, having those children lie like he did? >> let me remind you, ms. rockwell, you're acting as the defense attorney. i don't need a horse behi

over this area twice and didn't come across the body until this juvenile -- >> straight out to ellie jostadr chief editorial producer. ellie, what can you tell me about the upcoming court date? will the cameras be open? typically with juveniles closed courtroom. >> right. well, this is the certification hearing. this juvenile will be certified for trial as an adult if the judge decides to do so. now, the judge has ordered that that hearing will be open to the public. however, he has prohibited either video or still cameras from that hearing. >> now, ellie, we talked about this earlier. the supreme court had a recent -- well, in the last five years, i believe, ruling that no longer in this country in any jurisdiction if you're under 18 are you death penalty eligible. now, in missouri, as i recall, it's a choice between gas chamber and lethal injection. >> that's right. >> that's quite a choice. but she won't face that, even if convicted. now, ellie, try to boil it down for me. if a juvenile is treated as an adult, if she gets life without parole, is there a chance when she turns 21 that she

>> back to you, ellie jostad.to go back and look at the video footage, the surveillance he video of, what was it, a target or a sam's warehouse or -- >> yeah, it was a publix. she actually -- and this was after she'd already been interviewed by the police. she called them and said how come you guys haven't gone to publix? my kidnapper went to publix at one point. he should be on surveillance. and they said well, you've actually never mentioned that until now, but we'll do that. they got the surveillance tape and sure enough, she says there's him, there's the guy on the tape. >>> every night hln's nancy >>> i'm just reading this ransom note. it goes on and on and on about, well, you can only get this amount out of this bank but they don't care where you get the money. she goes through about starting with $7,000, that's good enough for right now, but they want $50,000. to wear a tight t-shirt when he comes to drop off the money. but it doesn't end there, does it, ellie jostad? after all of that, after all of that, t

to ellie jostad, our chief editorial producer on the story, we've learned a lot since last night, when we first started the story. >> mm-hmm. that's correct, nancy. a lot of details in this police affidavit that we received. quinn gray apparently first aroused suspicion with cops when they said it sounded like she was making up the details as she went along. initially telling them this story about being abducted by these loan sharks who her husband owed money to. later saying she was sexually assaulted. then going into great detail about this alleged sex assault with the kidnapper, including what type of sex acts were involved and many other details about that time she spent with this alleged abductor. >> tonight, secret audiotapes between quinn and the boyfriend as well as police interrogation tapes emerge. take a listen. >> okay. unleash the lawyers. joining me tonight, susan moss, new york. raymond giudice, defense attorney, atlanta. jason oceans, defense attorney in new york. okay, ray. you're the defense attorney. what's your defense? i mean, come on, ray. before you were a defens

to ellie jostad, our chief editorial producer on the story, we've learned a lot since last night, when we first started the story. >> mm-hmm. that's correct, nancy. a lot of details in this police affidavit that we received. quinn gray apparently first aroused suspicion with cops when they said it sounded like she was making up the details as she went along. initially telling them this story about being abducted by these loan sharks who her husband owed money to. later saying she was sexually assaulted. then going into great detail about this alleged sex assault with the kidnapper, including what type of sex acts were involved and many other details about that time she spent with this alleged abductor. >> tonight, secret audiotapes between quinn and the boyfriend as well as police interrogation tapes emerge. take a listen. >> okay. unleash the lawyers. joining me tonight, susan moss, new york. raymond giudice, defense attorney, atlanta. jason oshins, defense attorney in new york. okay, ray. you're the defense attorney. what's your defense? i mean, come on, ray. before you were a defens

to ellie jostad, our chief editorial producer on the story, we've learned a lot since last night, when we first started the story. >> mm-hmm. that's correct, nancy. a lot of details in this police affidavit that we received. quinn gray apparently first aroused suspicion with cops when they said it sounded like she was making up the details as she went along. initially telling them this story about being abducted by these loan sharks who her husband owed money to. later saying she was sexually assaulted. then going into great detail about this alleged sex assault with the kidnapper, including what type of sex acts were involved and many other details about that time she spent with this alleged abductor. >> tonight, secret audiotapes between quinn and the boyfriend as well as police interrogation tapes emerge. take a listen. >> okay. unleash the lawyers. joining me tonight, susan moss, new york. raymond giudice, defense attorney, atlanta. jason oshins, defense attorney in new york. okay, ray. you're the defense attorney. what's your defense? i mean, come on, ray. before you were a defens

to ellie jostad, our chief editorial producer, what can you tell me about reports of insiders with access that's tim miller. he's the founder of texas equusearch. he is saying that after being with misty croslin during that polygraph that he set up, after that layered voice analysis, he says that she keeps insisting that haleigh is alive, which makes him think that haleigh is actually dead and they're not going to find her. >> to marlaina schiavo, when she says that on the lie detector, that the child is alive, was that proven to be a lie? >> according to tim and his polygrapher, yes. i mean, they said that it was full of deceit, all of the answers that she was giving. but at the same time, nancy, we have to keep in mind that as much as tim miller doesn't have any evidence that she's still alive, he hasn't really given us much evidence that she is dead. >> absolutely correct. and that is the point made by grandmother teresa neves. i want to go to ron shindell, former nypd deputy inspector. what, if anything, can police do now? they seem to be at a dead end. >> nancy, they have to keep goi

ellie jostad, isn't it true that the cops have pinged her cell phone and while she told them she was in a warehouse or she was in a car, in a van, and transferred from vehicle to vehicle in various parking lots she was in a hotel shacked up with her lover the whole time? >> right. well, police say that this alleged lover, jasmin osmanovic, told them that not only did he never tie her up he said she willingly participated in any of the sexual activity. he says he left her alone in the vehicle with the car keys, he left her alone in the room. he said one time she even left on her own to go buy beer. now, there's hotel employees that corroborate that she was there by herself a lot of the time, she seemed calm, she didn't seem like she was there under duress. >> so ray, under your theory, the stockholm defense, where kidnap victims begin to identify with the kidnapper, she felt she had to go to the quick trip and get a six-pack, right? >> her testimony may be that he he threatened her that if she didn't do that he would kill her and her children. listen, there's no insanity defense here.

over this area twice and didn't come across the body until this juvenile -- >> straight out to ellie jostad. ellie, what can you tell me about the upcoming court date? will the cameras be open? typically with juveniles closed courtroom. >> right. well, this is the certification hearing. this juvenile will be certified for trial as an adult if the judge decides to do so. now, the judge has ordered that that hearing will be open to the public. however, he has prohibited either video or still cameras from that hearing. >> now, ellie, we talked about this earlier. the supreme court had a recent -- well, in the last five years, i believe, ruling that no longer in this country in any jurisdiction if you're under 18 are you death penalty eligible. now, in missouri, as i recall, it's a choice between gas chamber and lethal injection. >> that's right. >> that's quite a choice. but she won't face that, even if convicted. now, ellie, try to boil it down for me. if a juvenile is treated as an adult, if she gets life without parole, is there a chance when she turns 21 that she could walk free? yes/no? >

. >> to ellie jostad, our chief editorial producer on the story, tell us more about the insects, elliewhat did he learn in the documents today? >> this is the first time we got a full look at the report done by dr. neil haskel, noted expert out of indiana. as mark explained, there are two main reports here. one explaining there were coffin flies in the trunk. >> okay. coffin flies is a unique term. jean casarez, explain. >> coffin flies come upon something when there is decomposition. that's what they veer toward. they found the coffin flies on towels, in casey anthony's car trunk and they found the coffin flies within the remains. they say that shows the coffin flies veered there in june or july. what that shows to the prosecution is the time of death was shortly after caylee anthony went missing. >> the stain that was in the trunk of my daughter's car -- when i opened up the trunk, we had the windows rolled down, the sunroof open. instantaneously, that gets in your house just like that. >>> we have a 3-year-old that's been missing for a month. >> a 3-year-old? have you reported that?

to ellie jostad, chief editorial producer who's been on the story. three causes of death.indictment, she's charged with first-degree murder and armed criminal action. in the indictment they allege she strangled, stabbed and cut the little girl's throat. >> okay. rupa mcmainny from our staff, on the story from the very, very beginning. the evidence is suggesting she lured the little girl out to the woods to kill her. isn't it true her family had been concerned she spent so much time in the woods? >> that's right, nancy. we have heard from neighbors in the community close by that observed, first of all, that the two young girls, the 15-year-old and the 9-year-old -- >> hold on. i want the viewers to know, you're seeing video that this girl now charged with murder one of a little 9-year-old girl, this is video she, herself, posted on youtube or myspace showing electrocuting herself and her little brothers on an electric pence. nice. okay, rupa. >> the 5-year-old and 9-year-old -- neighbors say alyssa bustamante is quite thin, quite small, no way she could have dragged the bod

to ellie jostad, chief editorial producer who's been on the story. three causes of death.e indictment, she's charged with first-degree murder and armed criminal action. in the indictment they allege she strangled, stabbed and cut the little girl's throat. >> okay. rupa mcmainny from our staff, on the story from the very, very beginning. the evidence is suggesting she lured the little girl out to the woods to kill her. isn't it true her family had been concerned she spent so much time in the woods? >> that's right, nancy. we have heard from neighbors in the community close by that observed, first of all, that the two young girls, the 15-year-old and the 9-year-old -- >> hold on. i want the viewers to know, you're seeing video that this girl now charged with murder one of a little 9-year-old girl, this is video she, herself, posted on youtube or myspace showing electrocuting herself and her little brothers on an electric pence. nice. okay, rupa. >> the 5-year-old and 9-year-old -- neighbors say alyssa bustamante is quite thin, quite small, no way she could have dragged the b