and clearly they have heard our viewpoints, and i think, you know, that the complainant would be emboldant, in light of what we think and maybe this is a safer course. >> i would like to follow up on what the chair has just suggested. and put it in the form of a motion. if we find that the sunshine ordinance was violated, by the department of or by mr. ginsburg, as head of the department of rec and park. and that it was a non-willful violation, and that would be my motion. and to give, more clear guidance, that in regard to this particular information, it should be disclosed. >> is there a second to that motion? >> okay, so there is no second. >> i will second the motion. >> you will second the motion? >> yes. >> all in favor? >> aye. >> aye. >> opposed? >> no. >> no. >> so, the motion to find a non-willful violation of mr. ginsburg was not passed. so it was defeated. the vote was 3-2, was sorry, the vote was 2-3, and there was no finding of a non-willful violation. and i mean, that i do think that we need a motion as to whether there is a willful violation, since that was... don't we sinc